Probably because Chinese cars are state subsidized.
this post was submitted on 04 Mar 2024
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Full of spyware and built cheap
The built cheap is the important bit. I think Firefox showed that all car.conpanoes are loaded with spyware. So, if the car is cool cheap and the spyware is no worse..,
The Spyware is controlled by China though which could be more concerning than a country that will play ball with the US government.
What do you think China will do with the data, that the USA isn't?
Look from the perspective of a us citizen and non us citizen, both not in China.
I don't trust the Chinese government, but I also don't trust the US government. I know many foreigners who no longer see America as somewhere safe to travel and whose interests are aligned with business interests, not people.
The US definitely monitors and stores everything, but it's largely benign in adverse action against average people. China is less known about that.
Tell that to to trans people at the moment. They won't agree.
China does nothing to average people outside China either, so it's not really a valid comparison.
I'm happy for China to pay for my car.
I know long term they want to kill off other car manufacturers. But so does Tesla, and gm, and every other manufacturer. If they ever get to that size, we could consider import taxes that equakise the market. At the moment, we need competition and scale.
We need FAIR competition. Subsidized products are not fair competition.
Starting a car company is not ever going to be a business anyone can set up. We've moved past that. Trslaz for instance, survived on subsidies for many years. I agreed we want fair competition. However, more than competition, we need mass market electric cars to reduce carbon emissions and drive the network effect of charging stations.
When there are multiple established companies, then we can worry about how fair the competition is. Otherwise, we'll end up with a fair market that has no competition and lots more pollution.
When there are multiple established companies, then we can worry about how fair the competition is.
If you let a company, that is subsidized by a foreign government, sell goods at below cost you won't have multiple established companies.
So, do you think Tesla's should be banned worldwide? Or does it just refer to Chinese companies?
What alternative strategy for increasing electric uptake would you propose. Currently the biggest 2 barriers to entry are price and in many areas, range concerns. Having higher uptake of cheap subsidied cars alleviates both, which is why there remains government subsidies available for certain vehicles.
Should those subsidies vehicles also lose their subsidy?
Unfortunately, you're either dishonest or an idiot with poor reading comprehension. I think it's the former. The words you decided to ignore were "below cost". BYD sells a car for $10k, alternatively Tesla's cheapest car is around $40k. If you can't understand the difference, then I can't help you.
And you're likely both. There is no need to jump to insults just because we disagree. I'm not going to further the discussion at this point.
If below cost was your main point, perhaps don't wait 5-10 comments in. The points that you raised up to that point we addressed in my initial comment.
Learn to make your point more effectively and perhaps you'll come across as less foolish and less abrasive when online.
If below cost was your main point, perhaps don't wait 5-10 comments in. The points that you raised up to that point we addressed in my initial comment.
My apologies, you are an idiot. Below cost was literally contained in my first comment, I haven't even made 5 comments, let alone 10.
Learn to make your point more effectively and perhaps you'll come across as less foolish and less abrasive when online.
How ineffective of me to clearly state the point you failed to comprehend in my first post. Luckily being right means I don't have to concern myself with being abrasive to idiots.
Starting a car company is not ever going to be a business anyone can set up.
Funny, because that's exactly what both BYD and Tesla are, that are now the 2 biggest EV makers in the world. And Polestar was started by previous Volvo employees. Fisker is started by a car designer. There are probably more examples, so in short you are making an argument from ignorance.
When there are multiple established companies, then we can worry about how fair the competition is.
But there ARE multiple established companies already, yet you say we should still accept unfair competition? But anyways it can never make sense, unfair competition always end up hurting customers exactly by making the number of competitors fewer not more, and forces otherwise competitive companies out of business.
Your stance simply doesn't make any sense in any way, and will hurt both consumers and tax payers long term.
Strange that nobody complained when Tesla got the subsidies.
Germany also subsidies it's car makers.
I don't agree with subsidies long term, but car manufacturing is not an industry that anyone can start up. It needs capital. Governments can provide that, at least initially.
And if government is going to supply capital, I'm happy to get a cheaper product that is paid by another government. In this case byd is providing the needed competition. Without them Tesla were outgrowing everyone, thanks to previous market distortion. It's just sour grapes at this point.
Why wouldn't he? BYD and other cheap BEVs from China directly threaten American jobs, and not the poorly paying kinds either. I see no rational reason why an American president wouldn't do everything in his power to protect American interests.
And for the environment I don't really think BEVs in the shape of cars is the solution. Scooters and small motorcycles outnumber cars by far and is growing faster as well, while each individual vehicle pollute far less the sheer volume is a problem and the air quality problem they contribute to is massive. Those and trucks I feel are the important vehicles to focus on, for the environment. But it's far easier of course to market and sell cars to high income individuals, in areas with the infrastructure necessary to support electric cars.
Then there's the whole not recycling old Ecar components, especially batteries, problem. Transportation going electric will only be environmentally sound if the related recycling industries are brought to a profitable scale...
Lovely catch22 from good ol capitalism
Batteries do get recycled, there's a huge market for them. Typically they are used for solar systems on homes
Some, not all, and not every piece of the battery either. Lots of plastics go into the production of batteries, and almost none is recycled despite batteries not having the general worries associated with recycled plastics.
We get it. You don't like Biden
This is the best summary I could come up with:
And it’s just one of many BYD electric cars on offer, from the compact e2/e3 hatchback and sedan (think a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla) to the full-size, luxe Han EV, a more expensive option nonetheless selling for under $33,000 in China (it costs more than double that in Europe).
“There’s almost an across-the-board apprehension about Chinese EVs, even though they would make an important contribution to [lower] CO2 emissions,” Gary Clyde Hufbauer, a veteran trade expert at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, says.
They took the “opposite of the Tesla approach”: starting not with luxury vehicles but ultra-cheap cars fit for taxi fleets and not much else, and constantly improving their early inexpensive prototypes.
Bloomberg reported earlier this month that the Biden administration is formulating rules that would limit US sales of Chinese-made parts, even if they’re in vehicles ultimately assembled in the US or Mexico.
As Frank Foer detailed in his book The Last Politician, this faction was brought into the Biden coalition partly through his now-National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan.
During the Trump years, Sullivan forged an alliance with the trade-skeptics and “broke bread with Elizabeth Warren disciples, labor union officials, and intellectuals from left-leaning think tanks.” Sullivan is also, notably, a major China hawk — Foer describes him as agreeing with Donald Trump that China is “eating our lunch” — leading to a hostility to trade with the country that meshed easily with that of trade skeptics who have for decades opposed exposing US manufacturing workers to foreign competition.
The original article contains 2,617 words, the summary contains 254 words. Saved 90%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Do we know these weren’t made with slavery?
Because free market it's good while it's your free market and not someone else's?