Striking, and honestly not so far from the American truth. People here in America didn't understand how fans got to Stadiums in Australia because they didn't see parking lots around it. They don't understand how to navigate European cities.

Fuck the PM's new needs. there's a war on motorists because motorists are selfish. They'll sacrifice everyone's convenience and ease of movement for their own car. They'll say fuck the planet as long as they get to feel import in their cars. Brits, show up and tell this guy he's nuts, and show this artist some support.

Let the US be a warning

[–] FlashMobOfOne@beehaw.org 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

At least here in America, there isn't much choice.

If you're not in a major city, a car is generally a necessity. That choice was made for us by the wealthy nearly a century ago, when a highway system was built instead of trains.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Not quite right.

The highway system was built and then our existing rail infrastructure was ripped up.

I was just reading in my local museum that my small college town used to have an electrified rail line that had hourly service to our nearby city, an hour away. This was in the Midwest. That's something I have driven daily to commute.

Mass transit wasn't just not built, it was stolen from us by politicians and big oil.

Brits, read that again, they ripped out our rail system so there would be a higher dependence on oil and cars. That's what this guy wants.

[–] frog@beehaw.org 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Brit here. They didn't rip out our rail system, they just privatised it. Due to the overwhelming need for shareholder profits and dividends, all the money the newly privatised rail companies made went into paying shareholders rather than investment in infrastructure. Meanwhile, the buses are technically local government funded, but run by private companies, who cut routes that aren't profitable. In rural areas, this is most of them - my village gets a bus once every 90 minutes now, which is not often enough to encourage usage when a car allows you to drive into the town, do your shopping, and then be home again in less time than that.

You know what was actually gamechanging last year? My village got it's own grocery shop! It is now possible to walk to a shop to buy food! And I think that is ultimately going to be the solution to reducing reliance on cars: set up services in the places people live, then they won't need to use a car as often. The 15-minute city principle works in rural areas too!

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That's good it's becoming more walkable!

But I stand by the warning about rail. Our rail was actually private back then too. The government shifted to pro car though, and allowed oil companies to buy the private operators. The oil companies then are the ones who started closing and ripping up rail, since America was distracted with the car. They started campaigns convincing people that trains and trolleys were old, slow, and inconvenient, convincing them they should be happy they were paving over tracks.

Now here we are, 60 years later, just starting to barely realize we might have been duped. Your rails in the UK are honestly a treasure. When I was there I was dumbfounded you could travel between cities so quickly . I didn't need a car ! (We literally don't have that here). Be vigilant about your rail system, there are people who would rather see it become roads, and I'm pretty sure your pm is one of them.

[–] frog@beehaw.org 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Our PM is definitely not surviving the next election (which will be happening in 10 months maximum, and there are pervasive rumours it'll be scheduled for 9 weeks time, to coincide with local government elections). I've been watching the polls closely for the last year or so, and both Sunak's personal ratings and that of the Conservative party are abysmal. The main opposition party, Labour, are not terribly inspirational right now, but their ties to the unions (including both rail unions) are pretty strong, and one of their policies (that they haven't yet U-turned on, AFAIK) is taking the rail companies back into public ownership as the contracts expire.

I actually think even the Conservatives would struggle to abolish the railways, anyway, even if they win the next election. Far too many of the elderly they need to vote for them rely on public transport, as do a lot of the middle and upper middle professional workers in the south east.

The railways in the UK are definitely better around the cities. Both the overground and underground trains in London are incredible, and getting to cities in the south east and around the midlands is decently quick. But it slows right down the more rural you get, where it's no faster than going by car and is significantly more expensive. If I drove from here to London (about 250 miles), in my car it'd be about a half a tank of fuel (£35-£40). Doing the same journey by train takes the same time, but costs double. I do it anyway, because the thought of driving on the M25 fills me with dread, but the train is often a hellish experience. Better enforcement of rules would help (noisy people not permitted in the quiet car, children not permitted to run rampant, etc).

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That makes me happy, that your rail is so needed over there, and that your PM is hopefully on their way out. Fingers crossed for you folks.

Totally get the railways being less useful as you get out, I think that's pretty natural. I'm heading from London to Scotland in a few weeks, I love that the trains are like, hourly. Going further north though I totally see it where the trains go to... maybe twice a day? Transit is very much "If you build it they will come". People don't use transit if there's no transit to use.. if it's inconvenient then they'll view it as inconvenient.

Also agree that the costs are high, it's more than I'd like to get between those cities, but the convenience is right there and especially as a tourist it's hard not to justify it. And you hit the nail on the head, I'd much rather have my headphones on sitting on a train listening to an audiobook rather than white-knuckle driving on a highway

[–] frog@beehaw.org 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If you ever get a chance to use the train heading into the south west (the Paddington to Penzance route), I recommend it for one solid reason: the view on the Exeter to Newton Abbott stretch is absolutely phenomenal. It's worth seeing at least once. :)

I think public transport can end up in a vicious circle. It gets cut so it's less convenient, so less people use it, which leads to companies and governments saying "well nobody is using this, why are we spending money on it?" so it gets cut further, so fewer people use it, and so on. They miss the fact that they need to spend more on it so it's more convenient.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 1 points 8 months ago

Thanks, I've actually been thinking about a trip to the southern half of the country, I'm a sucker and want to see the white cliffs, Brighton, and have never seen Wales either. I'll look into that route, that sounds really pleasant!

[–] ninjaphysics@beehaw.org 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

We can still take steps to reverse this, and there is a grassroots movement supporting walkable/micro mobility infrastructure. I've seen municipalities do studies partnered with nonprofits (in the US) which has resulted in daylighting intersections, raised bump outs, and safe, separate biking lanes. It just takes forever because all the people that think this will increase their drive time in personal vehicles would never fathom biking or walking. This country needs an attitude adjustment and a walk back from reliance on emotional support vehicles. I've biked in rain and snow, and it's so much more fun when you aren't fearful for your life because some impatient car brain can't wait to save 0.5 seconds on their commute and would rather run you over.

[–] Vincent@feddit.nl 1 points 8 months ago

It's like a reverse https://dutchcyclinglifestyle.com.