this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2024
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I met a Ukrainian today. He is my age. I met him at school drop off, our sons are in the same kindergarten class.

They recently arrived here from overseas. I welcome them, but I wish we had done more to help Ukraine.

There are numerous places in the world where people are being displaced by state violence, but I don't think there's anywhere that it's being done by a global power so directly. It's similar to Gaza/Palestine & Israel, but Russia can end the war by simply going home.

If we had been meeting our NATO obligations for the last 30 years, would this family have been driven out of their home? I don't know. (I actually know almost nothing about their personal circumstances)

I just feel like we should have done more, and that it's not too late.

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[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 17 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I know as compassionate Canadians it's hard to contend with Ukrainians losing their homes to Russian aggression. It's major power vs. major power though, the main reason Ukraine is lacking is because Putin's bootlickers in the US have helped Russia by stalling aid for so long, and even meeting NATO commitments for 30 years would have no discernible effect compared to that.

When looking at the Israel-Palestine issue, I think it would have been a better time than any for us Canadians to respond in the same way we did in the Suez Crisis in 1956, where UK, France and Israel invaded Egypt. It would have been excellent to take a stand and intervene not necessarily supporting Palestine or Israel specifically but to end hostilities and protect civilian life in a conflict where there is blatant disregard for it from Hamas and IDF military command.

Unfortunately we basically took the US' position without saying so explicitly. And considering the way non-combatants, humanitarian volunteers and journalists have been murdered without consequence, it's a hard sell as Canadians to sacrifice ourselves to the war machine.

[–] AnotherDirtyAnglo@lemmy.ca 5 points 6 months ago

meeting NATO commitments for 30 years would have no discernible effect compared to that

I think that if all NATO members had met or exceeded their obligations, there would have been an obscene amount of weapons to supply Ukraine with, within weeks of the start of Russia's invasion, and it likely would have been over immediately. As it stands right now, nobody has a meaningful stockpile. Of that stockpile, there's no capacity to replace it. In terms of building new capacity, it would take years -- because the process and equipment are so specialized that it can't be hammered together in a weekend, a month, or probably even a year.

[–] Nouveau_Burnswick@lemmy.world 5 points 6 months ago

United Nations Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) has been active since 1974 and mandated with exactly this.

[–] small44@lemmy.world 13 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Israel also can stop the war by lifting the blockade of gaza and stop colonizing the westbank

[–] m0darn@lemmy.ca 5 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Israel should stop genociding Palestinians.

I don't know what "stop colonizing the west bank" would look like, but I don't think it would be as simple as withdrawing an army. Which imo makes peace in Ukraine more achievable than justice in Gaza/Palestine/Israel.

This post is about Ukraine so let's not get into it.

[–] gianni@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

To be fair, you originally brought up Israel/Palestine in your initial post.

[–] m0darn@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 months ago

Only to articulate what I see as the difference and why I think Ukraine is simpler.

[–] HubertManne@kbin.social 2 points 6 months ago

I think you may be right. Its possible Israel may be partially responsible for the situation.

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 6 months ago

Doing so would require essentially no money.

[–] xmunk@sh.itjust.works 12 points 6 months ago

Ukraine is a uniquely difficult situation and, while I agree we could do more, I think it's mostly America's delayed response that has led to thus drawn out conflict. Part of the reason for that response is entirely rational - no western nation wants to directly put boots on the ground for fear of escalating the war to a nuclear level. Part of the reason is just internal American corruption. Canada's contributions are below nato expectations but still rather close - I don't think we need to shoulder the burden for failing to resolve this conflict.

And, as a note, one of my coworkers and reports is a Ukrainian refugee - we've been extremely relaxed about accepting them (in a good way) and have several preexisting cultural communities (especially in BC).

Isreal is another matter entirely - that's America's shame... the can stop the genocide with the flick of their wrists and my strongest desire there is that Biden's reluctance to do so doesn't give us another Trump presidency south of the border.

[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If we had been meeting our NATO obligations for the last 30 years, would this family have been driven out of their home?

I only know what I read in the popular press, but believe Russia/Putin regards Ukraine as a physical buffer between Russia and the threat of invasion. I don't think a stronger (or weaker) NATO would have changed that belief.

[–] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 3 points 6 months ago

That's propaganda, the Kremlin knows NATO isn't going to invade them. If they wanted to, they'd do it now while the Kremlin can't even stop mercenaries marching on Moscow.