Aceticon

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[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

As soon as the Zionist supremacists infiltrated and subverted this specific fight against Racial Discriminations, it was always going to turn into yelling at each other since their "arguments" don't work in the logical plane so they have to move the discussion to the emotional place, were they can use things such as Fear to really rally the masses whilst avoiding getting people thinking about it.

It's not by chance that they keep pulling out events from the Holocaust, 80 years ago, (and, worse, even whilst they themselves are committing a new Holocaust) to stoke Fear in some and Guilt in others, so that they indirectly get support thanks to the "criticizing Israel is anti-semitism" link they themselves created.

In all this, out comes a lemmy.world mod (a place which has a History of supporting Zionist Israel) using censorship and accusing somebody of being "Against the Race" when they dispute the balance between harm caused by anti-semitism and resources demanded to fight it in light of far more harmful and widespread forms of Racial Discrimination getting way less attention, EXACTLY as supremacists do (for example, the KKK when their claims of "attacks on Whites" are challenged, almost invariably end up accusing those critics of being "against Whites").

All this said, and to more directly address your point in your post, my objective with bring all this here was to raise awareness to such techniques and ideally get more people to come at things from a Humanist viewpoint of harm reduction to people rather than going along with the Racist viewpoint that it's races being harmed and that different judgment and treatment should be given to people of different races (even if the entry form into the Racist viewpoint is often a Racism disguised as "benevolent" - i.e. favoring specific races rather than disfavoring specific races).

Every person I convert to Humanism is one less person that falls into the trap of "benevolent" Racism (and either on the path to malevolent Racism, or easily manipulated by malevolent Racists) and this then gets reflected in the real World outside.

Humanists too fight against Discrimination (more broadly, against unjust treatment of people, especially harming them), only it's anchored in Principles about Natural Justice, and looking at and treating everybody who was born into an ethnic group (through no choice of theirs) the same, either better or worse than otherwise, isn't Just.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

It's been almost a century since the Holocaust and, as I said, from my own experience living all over Europe, things are not like that anymore in most of Europe (though I heard Hungary is still a shithole in that sense).

From all I've seen, the "go to chew toy and scapegoat" these days just about everywhere in Europe is Muslims.

The Humanist point of view is that you go harder after the racial discrimination causing the most harm, and these days that's not anti-semitism, so it logically follows that those people demanding that in the present day far more resources and attention are dedicated to anti-semitism than to those forms of Racial Discrimination which, right now, are causing far more harm and are more widespread, aren't driven by a Humanist desire to reduce pain and harm (as if that was the case they would want even more help and attention for the even more damaging forms of Racial Discrimination), and hence the most likely explanation for their desire for such an unfair allocation of resources (especially unfair when contrasted with things like Romaphobia, and right now even more so Islamophobia due to the mass murdering along ethnic lines which is the Gaza Genocide) is Racial Preference and Racial Discrimination, or in other words, Racism.

This aligns to how the Jewish Supremacists - the Zionists - have infiltrated, subverted and weaponized the fight against anti-semitism (which is obvious to all in how criticism of Israel is repeatedly deemed "anti-semitism", even codified as that in Law in some European countries) and turned it into a tool to advance their own malevolent supremacist ends: it makes sense that most of the push for keeping anti-semitism the form of Racial Discrimination that gets the most attention and resources is coming from the supremacists since that boosts their position, rather than from people genuinely concerned with the harm caused by anti-semitism, and a strategy of repeatedly pulling out the events of the Holocaust, almost a century ago, to guilt others into going along with that (even in the face what now seems like a new Holocaust, being commited by those very supremacists) is an obvious strategy, especially in places like Germany.

And in all this, out comes a moderator - in lemmy.world which has a history of supporting Israel in their Genocide - claiming that me pointing this out is me "Criticizing Jewish people as a whole”.

Accusing people of being "Against the race" when they don't go along with one's demands of extra attention for their claims of Racial Discrimination against that ethnic group, is EXACTLY the kind of reaction that Racial Supremacists have, as examplified by assorted White Supremacists, such as the KKK and the Afrikaaners in Apartheid South Africa who were prone to make wild exagerated claims of "attacks on Whites" and would then, whenever these claims were challenged, accuse people of being "Against Whites".

Humanists fighting against Racism don't accuse others of being "Against the race" when they disagree, because they don't look at it as races, they look at is as people being made to suffer by others who use Race as an excuse.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 4 days ago

The whole Israel thing was just the Democrat Party Establishment practicing how get away with supporting Fascism, abroad were Americans are safe from the consequences so it was easier to get away with it.

Now they're applying all that practice at home.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

You really can’t say things like “anti-semitism ...

Very much the core of my point.

You "can't" voice objective judgments on some forms of Racial Discrimination unless they're aligned the Prejudices and Racial Preferences of certain people (like that moderator) with regards to the targeted ethnicity of that discrimination otherwise you're deemed "against the race" (good old "If you're not with us, you must be against with us") even if you're trying to make a level headed analytical judgement of the "matching firefighting resources to the size of the fire" kind.

No, no, no, you have to claim it's a giant fire, the greatest fire there is, or the Racists will deem you Racist for "denial" of the size of the fire.

The whole thing is a fucking sacred cow, to which logic "cannot" be applied (only it can, it's just that some people refuse to accept its conclusions unless they go the way they favor).

With the fight against Racism so thoroughly infiltrated by Racists, even if it's usually mainly the so-called "benevolent" Racists (those who hold positive prejudices about certain ethnicities rather than negative ones), it is stupidly easy for the malevolent Racists (such as supremacists) to infiltrate and weaponize it to serve malevolent ends, which is exactly what happened to the fight against anti-semitism which was infiltrated and mostly subverted to serve the supremacist ends of Zionism.

By reacting as they do (as I described above and as observed in that moderator's behavior) to any rational analysis of the Racial Discrimination against any ethnicity for which they have a Racial Preference, the "benevolent" Racists shield the "malevolent" Racists and their subversion of that specific fight against Racial Discrimination and this in turn also has a negative impact on the whole edifice of the fight against Racism since others will spot the hypocrisy of the situation and many will conclude (erroneously, IMHO) that "it's all bullshit".

Further, all those "benevolent" Racists also distort the allocation of resources in the fight against Racism, pulling in "more firefighters" to "smaller fires" and away from "larger fires", which is what I was trying to demonstrate when I brought up Romaphobia.

This is how we ended up with the shit-show which is the fight against anti-Semitism in the present day, were most of the fight isn't against anti-semites anymore, it's against those who are against Racism in general.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 5 days ago

Everything that can be used to manipulate the masses is a tool of Capitalism.

Even anti-Discrimination movements are often made a tool of Capitalism (haven't you noticed all sorts of exploitative large companies going "rainbow"?).

Here however, I don't think the masses are siding with the Genociders. Granted a ton of effort has been put into trying to make the masses do so (more so in some countries than others), but the scale of the depravity of the Genociders is so extreme and undeniable that it isn't working anymore, so it's mainly the power elites who keep supporting Israel.

Mind you, Racism is definitely being leveraged (both Islamophobia and the positive prejudice towards Jewish People which is really just a cultivated variant of pro-White prejudice - "Israel has Western Values") to try and manipulate the masses, but I don't think the drive amongst those in power for pushing the masses that way is a Capitalist one as it's not clear that all that much is gained monetarily from supporting these Genociders.

Racism is a tool to manipulate the masses, but the power elites themselves aren't immune to it and hence are also driven by it at times, Capitalism or no Capitalism.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (5 children)

I agree, the way I put it and without the rest of the context it doesn't translate well the point I was trying to make, and even though I tried to clear my viewpoint in later paragraphs (especially the one about Humanism), it was either badly done, not read by most people or too late to change the idea they made in the previous paragraphs.

Still, from that to it being "Criticizing Jewish people as a whole” as stated by the mod is a huge, huge leap.

My whole point is built as follows:

  • Racial discrimination hurts people and is felt very personally by those victimized, as human beings not as "members of a race". It's the aggressors, not the victims, who see it as an attack on a race (in their twisted minds they're "fighting a race" and their victims have been dehumanized to nothing more than "members of a race").
  • So adopting the "it's all about races" point of view on racial discrimination is adopting the aggressor's perspective.
  • If you don't adopt that viewpoint, then racial discrimination is seen as human beings being treated unjustly and even made to suffer and killed by other human beings who use race as an excuse. That doesn't mean racial discrimination doesn't exist, it just puts it in context as the irrational motives of the aggressors. From that viewpoint the "alarm" and "urgency in addressing" cases of racial discrimination is based on harm caused and how often to the victims, not on what the aggressors think and hence not on the race of the victims.
  • So for me looking at it from this later - Humanitarian - perspective, the amount of attention and alarm (as reflected by the constant use of the word "anti-semitism") to racial discrimination specifically against the Jewish People is insanely disproportionate to the present day damage caused by that specific form of racial discrimination compared to racial discrimination against other ethnicities which is barely talked about (in Europe the most shocking example being Romaphobia), a situation which cannot be logically explained by "hurt minimization" (since there the greatest alarm would be about the greatest harm, not which ethnicity is targeted) and hence the only logical explanation left for such behavior is Racial Preference, aka Racial Discrimination, aka Racism.

Absolutely, of this was the 1940s from a Humanitarian perspective it would make total sense that anti-semitism would be the kind of racial discrimination that people should be most alarmed about and fight the hardest against, because that was the one causing the most harm.

80 years later, in the 2020s, anti-semitism is far from one of the top most harmful forms of racial discrimination and hence the disproportionate alarm about it we see in the Press in many countries and even often here, is either artificial for propaganda purposes and/or based on many people holding Racial Preferences (often whilst thinking of themselves as anti-Racists) and hence reacting differently to the various kinds of racial discrimination, purely based on the targeted race rather than on any considerations about the harm being done.

It's in this - pardon my French - pile of shit of widespread Racist perspectives even in the very core of the fight against Racism, that we end up with situations of people claiming "anti-semitism" when somebody criticizes the ethnic Genocide being committed by Israel in Gaza when the worst (when measured by actual harm caused) form of racial discrimination in the present day in the World is probably that of the majority of the Israeli population against Palestinians.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

In my experience that massively depends on the country: some countries such as the UK are as bad as the US when it comes to a captured Press who pride themselves on being "Opinion Makers" - which gets reflected on how much the locals trust the local press (at least some years ago it was the least trusted in all of Europe) - whilst in other countries the Press is a lot less polarized and has far fewer newspapers and TV channels which dedicate to "opinion forming".

My own experience moving from Britain back to Portugal was like night and day when it comes to Press Independence.

Not to say that Press in the latter is this utopia of truly independent and professional Journalism, it's just way less propagandistic and biased that in the UK and here some newspapers actually *gasp* try and be independent and have Journalistic Integrity (whilst in the UK pretty much only the satirical magazine Private Eye is a "no sacred cows" publication that speaks truth to power)

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

There is genuine anti-semitism out there, a lot of it quiet and unvoiced but none the less translating into discriminatory behaviors against some people purely because they're Jewish.

(You can even see some obvious examples of anti-semitism here in Lemmy - which is supposedly more left of center and having in average more highly educated users - all the time: just notice those people who blame Jews in general for the actions of Israel, something anchored on the "logic" that a whole ethnicity is responsible for the actions of some individuals in it, a pretty common Racist trope)

That doesn't make any less real the chasm between how much the accusation of "anti-semitism" is thrown around and the actual prevalence and the intensity of anti-semitism in the modern era in Europe (which is what that thread was about and the whole thing was under a post entitled "Netanyahu Says It’s Antisemitic For Israeli Soldiers To Describe Their Own Atrocities"), and the profound difference in how racial discrimination against Jews is treated versus how the racial discrimination against other ethnic groups is treated.

This is especially obvious when compared with the Roma People and Romaphobia, because in there the chasm is in the very opposite direction - in Europe the discrimination is huge yet the attention paid to it is minimal.

In my view this reflects the Racist Architecture in the minds of many self-proclaimed anti-racists - racial discrimination isn't looked at by them as a problem of injustices and even injuries committed against individuals by those who use race as an excuse (and hence were logically prioritization of addressing the problem should be based on harm done), instead it's looked at as a race thing - in other words, they're adopting the perspective of the aggressors (who in their twisted minds are "fighting against a race" and have objectified their victims as a "member of the enemy race") rather than that of the victims (who suffer as people, quite independently of race: it's not really their "race" that's hurting or even being harmed, it's them, human beings).

That a moderator actual thinks pointing this out is “Criticizing Jewish people as a whole”, is just extraordinary and in my view probably reflects the moderator's own internalized Racial Discrimination.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (4 children)

Mate, I don't know in which countries in Europe you lived in, but in all 4 countries of Europe I lived in discrimination against Roma People (or Travellers in the UK) was far, far larger and normalized than discrimination against Jewish People and yet, how many times have you heard or read any of the the words "antigypsyism, anti-Romanyism, antiziganism, ziganophobia, or Romaphobia" versus how many times have you heard or read the word "anti-semitism", especially in the Press?

Now, granted, I'm not old enough to have lived during WWII so I'm not going to claim it wasn't the other way around 80 years ago, but I can most certainly make informed claims about how widespread anti-semitism is in present day Europe compare to other forms of Racism against minorities and how right now claims of anti-semitism are vastly (tens of thousands, maybe millions of times) more often thrown around than for example claims of "Romaphobia" even though the latter is vastly more common.

(And that overuse of "anti-semitism" has become much worse since Israel started it's latest Genocide).

And yeah, special attention towards specific ethnicities and the racial discrimination against them, but not others, not because of the intensity and damage of that discriminations is higher but simply because of the target being a specific race, is itself Racial Descrimination and hence Racism: the Nazis too practiced "positive" discrimination in favor of the "Arian Race" - it's not on the footsteps of Humanists you are walking, it's on a whole different kind of bootprint.

And definitelly I FULLY STAND BY MY WORDS that the Fascist Pigs supporting Israel and its actions by throwing accusations of anti-semitism around against critics of Israel and its actions are just present day Nazism supporters with a different list of ubermenschen - putting a dress and some lipstick on a Fascist Pig and claiming they're "lefties" because now their Racial Discrimination is "positive" doesn't make such creatures any less Fascist Pigs and what they wallow in any less disgustingly racist.

The moderator statement that, when one makes the point that the level of attention and alarm towards a form of discrimination should be proportional to its prevalence and the damage it causes and not be decided solely based on the which race is being targetted, is "Criticizing Jewish people as a whole", just confirms that they follow the full-blown Racist idea that protection is deserved or not based on ethnicity and some ethnicities are more deserving of protection than others.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Even "better", only people with the right connections will have access to this slave labour, so only very wealthy or very Fascist farmers will get their harvests harvested.

Win, win, win for Fascism in the US.

[–] Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 6 days ago

It's one of those rare moments when both something and its opposite are objectivelly true.

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