(It's going to be a bit of a vent post, sorry. Also we probably already discussed this)
How can people be so wrong about so many things all at once ?
The main talking point were that immigration costs too much, will "balkanize" western europe and bring higher crimes.
Do these people not understand that the reason for the higher crimes and for the "cultural" differences are entirely due to the fact that we are not integrating them once they arrive ?
An illegal immigrant has two roads:
Become a slave
Do illegal things (like steal/sell drugs)
And a lot of these people have no way to become legal migrants who get some protection from the state.
A person with no protection from the state is someone that can be freely exploited by companies and corporations.
Because they can be freely exploited, they can become an enemy to the bigger working class as they create unfair competition in a competition based job economy that has no respect of any values.
The real issue is than the system that allows for them to be exploited.
If they were legal migrants, they would be able to get legal jobs, they would need to be payed roughly the same and would not be an issue for anyone anymore.
Why can't we just accept them in the country, teach them the language and how the country works to some degree, and then let them exist ? Like, they could get a job, produce for the economy, start a family etc. like everyone else.
I understand that the capitalist class needs to have a scapegoat for all the wrong things they do but, how could this many people fall for something like this ?
Also the governments are now proposing crazy plans like:
Deport every migrant to another country, process the request there and, if they get accepted, bring them back. If they don't get accepted, guess what ?, they still need Ti get them back to the country they applied in because it's like impossible to send them back. Why are we then shipping or flying them to a 3rd country just to wait there ? Shouldn't we get started on integration ? Give them a job so they don't cost anything while they wait ?
Also the number of immigrant is soooo small compared to the population, oh my god why do they talk about them so much ?
Also the people saying we need to help them in their own countries, 99% of the time seems to be the exact same people that are ok exploiting them, they just want to do it far away were they can't see them.
So I guess the investment they would bring would not go to things beneficial to the societies of the immigrants but they probably just want to build like cheap manufacturing and prisons.
I guess we should just eat the rich and use that money to finance a better system to handle them that would also be beneficial to the working class (which, as we now but a lot of people don't understand, is most people).
I guess the main thing I would like to know from the community here is: have you guys have found some talking point that actually work on people with this backward opinions ?
And also what's the general opinion on immigration on lemmygrad ?
Your conflation of fascist capitalism with communist governance reveals a fundamental misunderstanding of both systems.
Fascism emerges as capitalism’s most violent and repressive form, which is needed in a country where there is an opposition between different classes of people, when bourgeois power has to preserve and stabilize it's rule over the people.
In a capitalist state, the police is a repressive apparatus, ICE raids and deportations under Trump terrorize migrant workers, creating a climate of fear that discourage labor organizing and reduces to zero the migrant's ability to fight against wage theft and unsafe conditions when they are already the most exploited. Also by giving power to white supremacist groups the state fragments class solidarity and such a divided people can't possibly create any strong opposition to the government.
Communism, by contrast, seeks to abolish classes entirely. The Berlin Wall and the GDR’s policies cannot be equated to capitalist authoritarianism without reckoning with the material conditions that necessitated them, which was not that of a class trying to force another into submission, but that of trying to resist against western sabotage.
As you can find in this article by William Blum, the CIA and NATO actively destabilized East Germany for decades by poisoning food supplies, bombing infrastructure, and recruiting skilled workers educated at socialist expense. These acts of economic warfare forced the GDR to defend its sovereignty. These acts of economic warfare, forced the GDR's government to increase it's border security. The wall was a defensive measure that even stabilized the Cold War preventing a hot war between the two Germanies. it likely helped prevent a nuclear conflict.
Meanwhile, the claim that socialist states resemble fascist dictatorships ignores historical reality. East Germany dismantled Nazism in it's borders, while the FRG recycled Hitler’s bureaucrats and generals. You can find more about this in the book "Stasi State or Socialist Paradise?: The German Democratic Republic and What Became of It", written after the reunification by someone who lived in East Germany.
Socialist states like East Germany have historically restrict movement only insofar as imperialism really threatens their existence, not the vague “cultural” excuses Republicans use for stuff like the one OP posted about.