this post was submitted on 14 Aug 2024
1281 points (98.0% liked)

Solarpunk Urbanism

1782 readers
1 users here now

A community to discuss solarpunk and other new and alternative urbanisms that seek to break away from our currently ecologically destructive urbanisms.

Checkout these related communities:

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 66 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

BuT I HaVe To WoRk FoR mY HoUsE!!

...yeah? And you get to choose how nice that house is and where it is. You aren't "forced" to only have a small apartment...

America: land of the greedy, cold, asshole.

[–] refurbishedrefurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org 24 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Yeah? Well if someone decided to build affordable housing near my McMansion, then my precious house's market value will decrease. Also something about crime because of the poors

[–] RaspberryRobot@beehaw.org 0 points 2 months ago

Noooooo my white flight suburb

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world -2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Crime is a legitimate concern, especially for people raising a family. I get where you're coming from, but you shouldn't trivialize legitimate issues. I'm someone who grew up in a violent, crime infested area, and it fucking sucked.

[–] refurbishedrefurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It is a concern, but crime is a symptom of a larger issue, that being poverty and desparation (for the most part). We need to put out the fire from the base, otherwise it will continue to grow.

[–] LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The vast majority of theft is done through the wealthy via time card fraud / theft from employees, and then police through asset forfeiture. Crime and morality have nothing to do with poverty, and associating them with poor people (when the rich do the most of it) is classist propaganda.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Eh ... There are literally millions of people who work and don't get to choose any of those things, and are forced into a small apartment and/or a roommate scenario.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Oh I know that all too well lol I currently rent an "apartment" that is the upstairs of a dilapidated garage and I work full time as a psudo-supervisor in a factory (whatever im considered idk lol we don't use titles so we can't determine our value properly)

For us, that "free housing" would probably be equivalent to what we have now lol

[–] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I mean, there’s no reason we can’t go the way of Japanese micro home in construction. Everything you need packed into an efficient little area you can still call home.

Hell… if I wasn’t married with kids and pets, I’d almost prefer that.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I wouldn't call the masses all living in tiny boxes so that the wealthy can add a few more zeroes to their bank accounts progress. Japan has a lack of available land that most places don't have. If people need to live in micro-homes to get by in places with plenty of space, then there's still a very serious unresolved issue.

[–] Zagorath@aussie.zone 3 points 2 months ago

You definitely don't need to (and shouldn't!) go as far as Japan, but even in places with abundant space like America or Australia, there are huge advantages to keeping homes relatively smaller in terms of land-area per-person. (Floor space can stay higher by: building multi-storey row houses, building apartments, reducing private lawn areas, etc.)

Keeping things less spread out is much, much more affordable. Fewer roads to maintain, fewer ks of electricity, sewerage, and Internet infrastructure, etc. It makes public transport run much more efficiently, which reduces the cost of operating it, which means you get more of it. This makes it a better service, which means people use it, which takes cars off the road, which makes congestion less of a problem, which makes getting around faster. Ditto the cost and usability of bike paths and nice pedestrian footpaths, which become more usable as a result of things being literally closer together, resulting in a store you might once have had to drive to get to being possible to walk to now. This in turn makes things more affordable for individuals, because they might not need to pay the huge prices associated with cars (buying the thing, maintenance, insurance, petrol) if they can get around by bike and public transport. Or at the very least, a family can drop down from 2 or 3 cars to just 1 being enough.

It makes housing more affordable, since instead of paying for 300 sq m of land per 100 sq m of floor space, you might now be paying 50 sq m or less of land per 100 sq m floor space. And because things a denser, your commute can drop from potentially over an hour to something reasonable like less than 30 minutes.

[–] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Oh, no argument here at all. I’m simply saying that a perfectly livable micro home could be the answer for those who would bitch about “I’m paying for my home and theirs is nicer” or similar.

Make a home that is adequate, but most would want to improve their lives and move out of.

Of course I’m more a supporter of UBI, which would likely solve this issue among many others if properly implemented. But that’s a different topic completely.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

That sounds like a good proposition. Of course it doesn't matter what we think if we don't get loud about it in places that matter, like city hall meetings, letters to the city council members, shouting while standing on top of a milk crate with a bullhorn, and stuff like that.

I was just kidding about the milk crate.

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 6 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I think the issue is that if the government offered tiny houses or apartments for anyone that everyone would want one.

The value of "free shit" is somehow larger than the value of owning a large mansion or something.

[–] stabby_cicada@slrpnk.net 20 points 2 months ago (2 children)

And what's the problem? So what if a whole bunch of single people moved into tiny government houses? Housing is a human right. And it sure would bring rents down.

[–] Ohmmy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 months ago

There is no problem, they create the problem to justify their lack of empathy.

[–] thejoker954@lemmy.world 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

'Simple' solution to that would be to put a time limit on how long you can stay.

Say maybe 2 years unless you have a medical condition or something. That should be plenty of time for people experiencing hardship to get past it.

[–] bstix@feddit.dk 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I think it'd be better with an income limit if that's possible to check.

Where I live, the only involuntarily homeless people are generally those who experience longer than 2 year medical or psychological issues.

[–] thejoker954@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Income limit would lead to people 'gaming' the system. Either just misreporting what they actually make or purposefully not making enough to qualify.

Or it will go just like current systems do - you make one cent over their arbitrarily decided number and you don't qualify even if you cant actually afford to live.

It would also screw over people who might have a 'good' income, but made honest mistakes and are upside down in debt or similar situations.

Income limit fosters a 'you deserve this, you don't' attitude which is what we are trying to get away from.

I just see a time limit system (with exceptions for those who are sick/unable to fully care for themselves) doing a better job of providing a basic human right to anyone who needs it while avoiding a bunch of bullshit an income limit would bring to the table.

[–] MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I just see a time limit system (with exceptions for those who are sick/unable to fully care for themselves)

Are we putting a time limit on processing who gets that designation? Because federal disability claims are a shitshow that take roughly six months just to get your first denial. And then can take years to go through appeals.

It's all just different takes on who "deserves" to live and for how long.

[–] thejoker954@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

Right - but thats a whole other can of worms.

There is no quick fix or Simple solution.

Its not like its just one small system that is broken - we have multiple broken systems that need to be torn down and rebuilt because the rot is in the bones.

[–] KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 months ago

There are major problems with income based limits. In theory they work, but they often break down over time locking people into the poverty they are trying to escape. It creates a grey area where they lose more than they gain by improving their income. Sometimes as much as an hour of extra work can lose them their benefits.

[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I wish I was "cold", I'm friggin' hot all the time. I need a personal AC suit.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I really wish I was cold too. I have to work in an open air factory and long island summers succcccckkkkkkk lol

[–] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Do they really call it “iced tea” there? Also that might explain why you feel hot all the time…

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yeah if it's a tea and usually lots of sugar that is kept cold then we'd call it iced tea. I think if it's like actually "served" at a restaurant or whatever it should be in a glass with ice too so that's probably really where the name came from. Now if it's just cold tea we'd call it iced tea lol

Then there's the "long Island iced tea" which is a cocktail lol

[–] MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Ahhh, Lonnng Island... I was born at Bayshore. Flew the coop while still in diapers.

[–] Asafum@feddit.nl 1 points 2 months ago

Small world! That's pretty cool! I wish I could get out, but for the last like 3 years everyone is singing the song of "omg a recession is coming" so I keep waiting lol