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No Policy Change: In CNN Interview, Harris Refuses to Condition U.S. Military Support for Israel
(www.democracynow.org)
this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2024
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politics
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The number of pro-genocide centrists who accuse anyone who doesn't love genocide as much as they do of being trumpers will never surprise me.
Maybe they just have a tendency to confuse the painfully obvious consequences of not voting or voting against Harris for your actual intended goals. Trump is clearly going to be worse for Palestinians since he outright said Netanyahu should just finish the job, so if you're on a clear and obvious path to getting someone even worse elected, we can't help but wonder if you don't actually care about the Palestinians because for all the bitching and moaning about Harris's stance, you're on your way to making the situation objectively worse.
I'm voting for Harris and have never, I want to stress this, absolutely fucking NEVER suggested doing otherwise.
You will of course completely ignore this because I dared to say that genocide isn't the only thing in this world that gives life meaning.
I'll admit I was mistaken given your comment was sandwiched between two people suggesting otherwise and given your suggestion that anyone tired of listening to those people try to discourage voting for Harris is pro-genocide. You may not be one of them, but you walk a very similar walk here, so I wouldn't be so surprised by the confusion.
Consider for a moment that some of the others that you've written off might not be trying to discourage people from voting for Harris but might actually be upset about genocide.
You do understand that there are people in the world who genuinely don't like genocide without ulterior motives, right? That it's actually possible to find genocide objectionable?
Because it sure fucking seems like centrists on lemmy don't want to hear anything that isn't glowing praise in the face of the news that Harris will continue supporting genocide to the same degree that Biden has.
Dude this all started because top comment knew this post was gonna be full of people discouraging voting for Harris, and then you jumped in and accused people of being pro-genocide for it. This is what I mean when I said you walk a similar walk. Anyone who disagrees with your perfect view of the world MUST be an enemy who directly wants genocide.
None of us like genocide. We're just tired of it being used to trash the candidate who's objectively better on the topic, shitty as that may be. I, at least, don't care if some posts about her are negative, but I'm real fucking tired of people trying to pretend that her failings here mean getting the objectively worse Trump elected on purpose or on accident is somehow a coherent idea, much less a good one.
And anyone who criticizes any Democrat's support for genocide gets a fucking earful of "you want Trump to win" accusations.
Ha. I wish we could link to specific modlog entries.
Objectively less bad. Let's not pretend she's good on the topic in any way.
And I'm tired of the constant insinuations that anyone who thinks that no Democrat should be supporting genocide must be a trumper.
Neither fucking party should be supporting genocide. This isn't perfect-world-everyone-gets-a-pony-and-a-blowjob-yes-even-the-women purity. This is the absolute bare minimum of what should be acceptable. It's the most disgusting shit ever to see the "good" party willing to be complicit in the eradication of a people, and to be met with gross hostility from your own party for daring to call it wrong.
I wonder who the next entry on Netanyahu's "then they came for" list is. Because one thing about genocide, it doesn't end unless it's stopped. It doesn't end when it runs out of victims in one group. The genocidal stay in power by lying to the people that if they just get rid of those that they designate to be the cause of all the world's ills, all their problems will go away. So when the victims are dead and the problems remain, they don't admit they're wrong; they're politicians, after all. They just find a new scapegoat for all the world's ills and continue as before. Ultimately everyone's on that list except the genocidal maniac at the top.
Calling her "pro-genocide" might very much suggest to people that they should not vote for her.
She is arming a genocide and refuses to stop. How is that not pro genocide? If accurately describing her stance drives people away maybe she should change it
Ffs people are so naive.
And if she didn't change it, you don't vote for her and Trump wins how do you think that plays out? You think he really cares and will save more lives than Kamala.
This is picking the least worst option and people are saying not to vote for her because of this. While Trump is saying if he gets in people will not have to vote again. Get the best choice in then protest the issue, but if Trump gets in it's much worse.
Why can't you just let people be angry about a genocide and the people that are responsible for it. We can't help that speaking the truth about this enormous atrocity hurts the less evil candidate we have to deal with the fact that our government is supplying the means to murder children on a daily basis grow a fucking heart
Because addressing the problem the wrong way can make it worse. I don't want it to be worse. Demonizing Harris and given Trump a better chance hurts everyone, Gaza included. I'm trying to step back and look at the big picture and far reaching implications.
Your cold and unsympathetic demeanor has convinced me not to vote for kamala
Ok
You're bitching about shit that you refuse to try to change. You've already admitted that you haven't done anything to change the course.
If you don’t tell anyone in power that you dislike a policy then no one will know you don’t like it. Most of you don’t want to tell anyone in power how you feel, so it’s just text in the wind.
You only have yourself to blame.
I don't know what the fuck you're talking about
I'm not surprised.
Point of fact, I called centrists pro-genocide, not necessarily Harris. Though it's not like calling Harris pro-genocide would make any centrist less likely to vote for her.
I feel like people are being very liberal with this "pro-genocide" term.
Not nearly as liberal as centrists have been for the past months with the "you don't support genocide so you must be voting for trump" accusation. Which you don't have a problem with.
Wow the amount of assumptions and speculation there. You're not interested in an honest conversation huh?
I find it interesting that people like you, who are "anti-genocide" can't help themselves from telling others how they think and feel. Might be a hint that your stance is dishonest.
Well, if you have a problem with the anti-genocide=trumper accusation, you're certainly not raising that concern with those who are making it.
If you have so much difficulty imagining having objections to genocide that you assume dishonesty, I don't know what to tell you, and it's not like you would believe it anyway since it comes from someone who has voiced opposition to genocide without immediately following it with "but."
Ok, so in the absence of you knowing my stance you feel comfortable making assumptions. Seems like a logical path to truth. Ffs...
You toss all nuance out the window to build this straw man. Genocide isn't the only thing in the world happening. And like I said in my last comment the "but" is because context exists. We could enslave them all and that would fix the genocide. I can only assume you're in favor of that because it would stop genocide, no buts.
You are comfortable saying that I called Harris pro-genocide, which I did not do. I said that centrists on lemmy are pro-genocide, which you took to mean that Harris is pro-genocide.
Both the article and the thread are about genocide.
Wouldn't be the only thing you've assumed about me that wasn't true.
Saying they are "pro-genocide" is beyond hyperbolic.
These type of extreme, over the top comments hurt way more than help.
Hurt what? The tender fee-fee's of pro-genocide centrists? If they don't want to be called pro-genocide, they should stop supporting genocide. If they don't want to be called pro-genocide, they should stand firm on literally any other issue. But they fucking don't. Everything else is up for negotiation. Everything else is fertile ground for capitulation. Not genocide. That's the only thing centrists won't budge on.
Ugh, your just as bad as Trump and MAGA with these childish comments. Please at least try to have an adult conversation, if your "fee-fees" can manage.
Being "pro-genocide" means they like and want it. That's not the reality, and if you think she really loves genocide you're a lost cause.
And I agree we should fight it, we should stop genocide but right now, which side do you think it's more open to thatb conversation? Because it's not the side that wants to removing voting. So I say get her in to office at all costs to protect democracy and then work to fix that.
I'm just not ready to let the country burn to the ground over this and put us in a situation where we no longer even have a voice to speak out against it. People don't seem to understand what's at risk here in the US and the longer term effects it would have. Was in the middle east and Eastern Europe could become the norm.
there's always a but.
From what I've seen on lemmy, no side is. Of course Republicans are all-in on genocide. Centrist Democrats are openly hostile to the very idea of abandoning support for genocide. Which is why I say that they're pro-genocide. You clearly have more of a problem with that than you do with the genocide itself. Know how I can tell? there's no "but" to negate everything before it.
I'm already voting for her.
How many times do you intend to ignore that I'm voting for Harris?
Yes because nuance exists. We could wipe out life on the entire planet, that would stop genocide. I'm guessing you're in favor of that then, any means justifys the end huh? Or we could maybe take over and enslave both sides, that could stop genocide. You might say "yah but we just turned them into slaves", to which I would say "there's always a but."
This is pure dishonesty. In our convo alone I've said it's bad and we should work to stop it.
While painting her as a horrible person that no and vote should vote for. Unless your saying people should vote for a pro-genocide candidate now.
I dunno, when are you going to acknowledge that while you're still voting for her you can actively turn votes away from her?
When you acknowledge that "pro-genocide" is a selling point on lemmy.
damn right
Harris could easily at this point make her own platform to run on that includes what the voters are asking for
her refusal to acknowledge the voters' concerns is very telling