this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2024
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Voting for a third party candidate only helps Trump. They might as well just vote for him directly. The outcome is the same and if America and the world are unlucky enough to experience a second Trump term, then these idiots would strongly regret their decision. Palestinians wouldn't be the only ones to suffer from this.
If you're so worried about Trump being elected, maybe you should push for Harris to adopt better policy so people are more comfortable voting for her, rather than shaming people for not wanting to vote for the lesser of two genocides.
A lot of people are both pushing Harris on this issue, and warning that Trump would be far worse.
A lot of us who are worried about Trump getting elected, ie. me who is disabled and bedridden, if I lose Social Security I die, also don’t have the capacity to push Harris much as those who would suffer the most under a Trump term, tend to be the most vulnerable people in society.
No, you're not, unless you're a billionaire. Kamala doesn't even have policy positions on her website. It's just a short bio and a donation portal.
Republicans however have made their plans clear. They plan to cut medicare, ACA, planned parenthood funding and lots of other affordable health care (in addition to all the other heinous Heritage Foundation shit)
Isn't that wild?
That we have a legit fascist candidate, and the fascist is the only one willing to say publicly what they actually support? All Democrats have offered voters so far are variations on two memes: Joy and weirdness.
Kamala doesn't even have policy positions on her website, which if you ask me, is basic functionality for any politician.
By pushing Harris I mean going out and protesting etc.
That didn't work on Obama or Biden.
Trump plans on installing himself as a dictator from day one. Not sure how you could protest or influence him to do anything.
I understand that.
But the thing is, if you're a wage earner, you're already living in a dictatorship. You need 2-3 jobs to survive in this country, hardly the bastion of freedom it claims to be.
The Dems can meme about joy all they want, but if you're a wage earner chances are pretty good you're not feeling it.
If you mean completely change a candidate to fit your views, no it’ll never work. But protesting tends to put pressure and marginally improve candidates.
I mean the number of broken promises is so extensive with Obama that you might as well have voted Republican instead.
No. I my family would have put me in a shitty nursing home if it wasn’t for the affordable care act.
Yes, these politicians are nowhere near my or your ideology. But having one over the other significantly impacts millions of lives. Don’t neglect that if you have the privilege not to be significantly impacted.
I'm glad it worked out for you.
I think it's a significant problem that it doesn't work for the tens of millions of Americans who can't withstand being price gouged. For them, the access promised by the ACA doesn't exist.
And I think it's significant (especially now) that Obama had the problem to make major, substantial change and didn't. He had the power to codify abortion into law and didn't. He had the power to pass the ENDA and didn't. He had the power to enact universal health care and didn't.
But he made absolutely sure no one involved in crashing the economy served any jail time, and in fact, rewarded them with our cash for their efforts.
I won't pretend to be an expert on much of this, but I feel it's wrong to say that he had the power to enact universal healthcare? Obama couldn't even get a public option (which he wanted) because he had to make concessions to get a veto proof majority. I don't see if this was the case that he had the power to enact full blown universal healthcare
Correction: He said he wanted it, but based on his actions, those words were just the usual empty politicking we've come to expect.
I mean I suppose you can look at it that way. We can't really prove one way or another what he actually wanted. But if we're basing what he wanted on his actions, I don't see how you can pin that one on him. Like he tried to get a public option, the president can't just make universal healthcare. It needs to pass the house and Senate.
Idk about the others in your original comment and I won't pretend to, but it's pretty well documented that he would not have been able to get even a public option. How would he have been able to get universal healthcare if he couldn't even do this?
http://www.politico.com/story/2009/10/lieberman-ill-block-vote-on-reid-plan-028788
@FlashMobOfOne @FundMECFSResearch
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Protesting only works because it comes with an implicit threat. In this case the threat is "you will lose the election if you don't listen."
I can't control Harris's policy choices. I can only control my vote, and I will crawl over broken glass to vote for Harris because Trump is a monster.
You can absolutely pressure Harris, though. Join a protest.
People said the same thing four years ago: Vote Biden and then push him to the left.
What we got was another right-wing Democrat who, once they seized power, didn't care to listen to anyone.
I'm going to vote Green. I already know my vote is worthless, so I might as well vote for a party I actually support.
Now I definitely know you're a Russian troll. This is exactly the kind of political apathy the Russian regime wants to establish in America after having done so at home years ago.
Yes, anyone who disagrees with you politically must be a Russian troll. I can't imagine why genocide would push someone do do something as extreme as vote green.
-> https://i.imgur.com/PTq7u8a.jpeg
Blocked.
yeah but trump is ready with pogroms for them while harris has none.
They're already happening under Biden. Did you miss a few weeks ago when homelessness was declared illegal? What about a few years ago when it became legal to criminalize abortions? How about when cop cities started becoming a thing under Biden? (And surely you recall when he mocked the Defund movement in his SOTU.)
This isn't a choice between fascist on non-fascist. It's a choice between two flavors of fascism.
When did biden declare homelessness illegal again. You do know the abortion rulings were by the judges appointed by trump right? And again not sure when biden founded some cop cities. This is exactly the crap of hey lets take the worse option and complain about the effects as if it came from the better.
Pretending the president is powerless doesn't help your position.
the powers laid out to him do are not in anything you spoke about and to boot he is not actively doing anything to make it happen like trump did with his scotus picks. its redic you make this statement when one of the things you put in your initial thing is 100% from action of trump. if a few folks had voted for hilary we would still have roe vs wade. I get it the nose needs to be held but I prefer to to live in the better outcome.
I think people are more concerned about the guy trying to give himself absolute immunity and install loyalists across every part of the government. Only one candidate is telling voters they'll never have to vote again.
Most of the things you are descriving are rulings from the Supreme Court, what is supposed to be an apolitical entity is now effectively a wing of the Heritage Foundation. Biden has spoken out about their decisions, what else is he supposed to do to counter them? AOC started impeachemnent proceedings against some of the more corrupt members, but without a majority what else can they currently do?
This is not to say the democrats are perfect or even good, but compared to the actions of the republicans? They are not the same. This is not a typical election at all.
Their entire pitch 4 years ago was that they'd leverage the power of the Federal Government to stop fascism.
They had a mandate and did nothing except use the power of their offices to get wealthier, or in Biden's case, keep his scumbag son out of jail.
I voted for Biden in full knowledge that the middle class would suffer because I thought what we'd seen from Trump would entail real, tangible action on the part of Democrats to purge the fascists from our government.
But it didn't.
I have zero faith they'll do anything to stop it now after watching them spend four years doing nothing about it, and it doesn't make sense to me to argue that they're some kind of conscientious alternative after what we've all seen them do these past four years.
If they'd done what they promised Trump wouldn't even be able to run now. Let that sink in.
Well, I agree with some of what youve said, Merrick Garland has a lot of blame here (and Biden for choosing him honestly, Bidens tried way to hard to "reach across the aisle" when the people on the other side were criminals and lunatics... that is infruitating)
But being disappointed in the response doesnt mean people still shouldnt turn out to vote though. It stands to reason we have a better chance seeing Trump finally brought to justice of hes defeated?
Knowing how much power Trump would get going into office and how much better organized his campaign is terrifying. He plans on totally dismantling the department of Justice and FBI, and turning it into his own personal police force out for revenge.
Harris hasnt had much actual say here thus far, Vice presidents arent able to intervene on these matters, but I think she would do a much better job of prosecuting Trump. Theres been plenty of fresh election interference charges to throw at him in the past few months alone.
Based on what facts?
She's been a presidential candidate and a politician long enough that not having her platform publicly available on her website isn't a mistake; it's a deliberate omission.
Her platform is: Just trust me. Well, I can't really do that when I just watched you waste four years that could have been spent trying to stop fascists, no?
It stands to reason because if Trump wins, he gets presidential immunity and will replace the entire department of justice with sycophants.
Im not sure what you are arguing here, are you saying people shouldnt vote for her because she didnt convict Trump - even when that means putting Trump in power again (effectively placing him above the law forever?)
Also there are multiple strong cases against Trump that have been held up and tanked due to Trump's own judge apointees (Cannon and the supreme court) Its not as if theyve done nothing?
Thank you for the discussion.
you're being way too vitriolic here, dial it back by 10.
One hundred percent this! While what’s happening in Gaza is beyond deplorable, voting third party only serves to shoot these folks in the foot. Not only would Trump promote actual pogroms to kill off the Gazan population en masse (even worse than the current level of violence), but they’ll find themselves the first up against the wall along with LGBTQ+ folks at home if Project 2025 is allowed to proceed.
You could call it shooting oneself in the foot or cutting off their nose to spite their face, but it’s more like voluntarily slitting their own throat and smiling about it because at least they made the floor messy for everyone in the process.
Trump isn't the one being two-faced and funding genocide right now. Biden is. (Or his handlers at least.)
You're right in that the position of both major parties is exactly the same on Israel, but you have to see how Biden's a hard sell at this point objectively.
The two parties are nowhere near the same on this topic, there is no genocide being funded and the whole handler nonsense makes you sound like a Russian troll.
Genocide is definitely being funded by the US. We gives billions in aid to Israel every yeah, no strings attached
You are wrong in every aspect here.
Both parties support and send military welfare to Israel annually, Dems have boosted it this year and last, in a time when Israel is committing genocide.
You literally watched Biden's brain melt on national TV in June, on top of dozens (and I'm being charitable there) of public incidents where his cognitive decline was undeniable and he appeared to have handlers keeping him form wandering off. The Daily Show made fun of them repeatedly.
Remember: "WE BEAT MEDICARE!"?
You're the friggin' troll here, trying to gaslight people.