this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2024
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https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday ~ Patrick Lancaster's telegram channel.
https://t.me/gonzowarr ~ A big Russian commentator.
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Pro-Ukraine Telegram Channels:

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https://discord.gg/projectowl ~ Pro-Ukrainian OSINT Discord.
https://t.me/ice_inii ~ Alleged Ukrainian account with a rather cynical take on the entire thing.


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[–] mkultrawide@hexbear.net 47 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (5 children)

It's the same here in the US. It's legitimately anti-semitic. They basically argue that politicians are hypnotized by zionist money, when really Western politicians (and their supporters) are just fucking racist. Israel doesn't create these people, it finds them. They already exist in the first place.

[–] SoyViking@hexbear.net 21 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I think there is a base of truth somewhere but when it is spun out of proportions to claim that the zionists owns or controlled western states it looks a lot like classic antisemitic conspiracies.

There is a lot of well-connected lobby money behind Zionism, especially in the US. If somebody becomes too prominent with anti-zionist views they can expect an outsized response from zionist lobby groups and agents. Somebody pays to primary pro-Palestinian candidates, somebody pays to flood the English-speaking internet with Hasbara filth, etc.

As an individual you can face nasty reprisals if you speak up against genocide and apartheid. This doesn't change the material relationship between the illegal zionist entity and the west however. Western states could get by just fine without the illegal zionist entity but without western military, financial and political support the illegal zionist entity would collapse within months. Is someone controls somebody else it's the other way around, the illegal zionist entity is a vassal or an outpost of western imperialism. If the US regime wanted to, they could make them stop the genocide by making a sternly voiced phone call. No zionist holds that amount of power over the US.

The zionist lobby is not the zionists controlling the west, it is the zionists maintaining good relations with and campaigning for the favour of their overlords.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

I think viewing it as the zionist lobby is part of the issue. Focusing on zionism obscures Israel's role as a vital laboratory for the MIC and it's role as a colonial fortress in the middle east. The members of the israel lobby and their allies are zionists, but the materialist reason for zionist support in the us is the us arms industry, imperialism, and geopolitical force projection. Idk how to best phrase it. Something like the the israeli lobby is zionist because of israel's role in the mic, rather than the mic itself being zionist? Idk. It's a base/superstructure thing but idk how to phrase it.

[–] Hexboare@hexbear.net 19 points 2 months ago

I don't think it's necessarily antisemitic, it's the same portrayal as for all US client states and the US promotes and leans into it

[–] GlueBear@hexbear.net 17 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Why is it anti semitic? Simply saying that politicians love aipac money more than serving their domestic population is just a matter of fact.

[–] Iwishiwasntthisway@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Not to do a whataburger (that autocorrected but I like it) but there are lobbies fucking up our lives in all sorts of ways, and the defense lobbies are bigger than AIPAC, which is basically just a tertiary to defense. And that's just contributions. These people's stock portfolios jump by leaps and bounds as they deregulate everything that's the biggest corruption of all.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

This. AIPAC is another military industrial complex lobby. If Israel hadn't been formed then the US would have another powerful and influential lobby for another middle eastern outpost. AIPAC exists because it's a useful tool for western imperialism.

[–] RomCom1989@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago

I'd say it's because the money is more of a bonus

The real purpose is ensuring American dominance,so Israel is in no way different than an extension of the US

Less like a brain parasite highjacking a body,more like a tumor metastasizing

[–] mkultrawide@hexbear.net 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's based around the nonsensical idea the reason for their support is only because of lobbying money, and that without it, their support would disappear. Support of zionist imperialism entirely predates the creation of a strong zionist lobby, both in the US and in the UK. AIPAC and company amplify what is already present, they don't create it out of nothing. Western politicians support racist, imperialist projects around the globe that have far weaker and less cash rich lobbies than Israel.

[–] Maturin@hexbear.net 14 points 2 months ago

It’s antisemitic because it is an inversion of reality where, instead of seeing “Israel” as a major tool of US/UK imperialism and that’s why their predominantly Christian people fully support and fund (and arm) it, they cast the imperial powers as being controlled by the so-called “Jewish State” playing into the antisemitic trope of Jews controlling the world. It’s also counterproductive for “leftists” to shift the blame away from the governments of the US/UK (and others) to their client state.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

People go much further than saying the israeli lobby is influential. It's often phrase as Israel or AIPAC actually having control over other governments.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

It's incredible to hear so many otherwise normal people going "dae protocols of the elders of zion?". Idk if it's just straight ignorance of how much foreign money pours in to congress, mindless regurjitation of things they hear on the news, or active anti-semitic belief but it's absurd on it's face. Israel is deeply integrated in to the us mic, it's a vital colonial bulwark. The us doesn't " support" israel, they're all part of the same system. It's just absurd.