this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2024
237 points (99.6% liked)
chapotraphouse
13538 readers
768 users here now
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Gossip posts go in c/gossip. Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from c/gossip
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Spain recognizes Palestine. It also had a homegrown anarchist movement that led one of the most successful anarchist enclaves in history.
They also suck in unique ways that France and the UK don't. They never caught up with all the social progress made in other Western European countries because they were shut off by Franco's fascist regime. They had a uniquely brutal rule over a huge chunk of the world, and led the most successful genocidal campaigns against indigenous people.
But can we really say that makes them worse than the UK and France?
As someone who’s grown up in Latin America, what I don’t understand is why Spain gets a pass, every single fucking time in the eyes of the West and pretty much world over?
They don’t even have the excuse of being precious little Italy who didn’t have the vestiges of a massive fucking empire dating all the way to the mid 20th century.
Spain is the most fash country in the West, by far.
Spain may be the western country that’s done the most historic evil but there is no way that modern day Spain is worse than modern day France, US, or UK.
It would be UK, actually, with US second. France, Spain and Germany are tied for the third place.
Oh to be clear I wasn’t saying definitively that Spain was the worst, just that it could be possible. Modern day Spain isn’t even in the competition
The Spanish Empire was functionally kaput at the end of the 19th century. The US/UK take more of the blame because they gobbled up the territories that Spain used to hold. It's the same reason why the US takes more flack for our involvement in Vietnam than the French. Just a game of hot potato. You get the blame for being the last guy to hold the bag.
I don't think anyone is suggesting the Conquistadors are somehow absolved of blame. But Spain, as an institution, hasn't been a global player in nearly a century.
That's exactly the excuse they have, practically speaking. And Italy gets tons of shit for being a hotbed of vile Catholicism.
Protestantism is just as bad. It's the christianity, not the sect. For that matter nearly all religions are problematic.
Spain gets a what? What are you even talking about??
That "pass" (if it even exists) is because current Spain is nowhere near as relevant as France, US or the UK in the world stage. Also lmao at saying Spain is more fascists than any of them.
My cousin Carl is more fash than Biden
update your knowledge on its more recent sins: madrid sent in police forces to arrest people engaging a peaceful and popular vote to separate and maintains arrest warrants for its leaders that no one else in europe will cooperate with since it's so clearly politically motivated.
they're also the strong opposition force against scotland joining the eu out of fears of encourage it's own separatists movements.
they've walled off the asylum process from its enclaves in africa; cueta & melilla; with police forces; high walls; high fees; and decades long wait times that it's no longer reasonable to assume that you can expect to get your asylum appeal ever heard while you're still alive.
Thank you for the info.
Can you think of examples of Spanish repression of the separatist movements that compares to the French ban on religious face coverings and the UK's campaign against Palestinian solidarity activists? I ask because my main frame of reference for evaluating these countries is the geopolitical context; Spain is essentially a semi-periphery country nowadays while the UK and France maintain a claim to their previous imperial hegemony through neo-colonialism. Spain's era has come and gone almost entirely so they only wish to retain their own state's stability, these campaigns would not extend to the level of racial hatred that you see in neo-colonialist states. With that framing in mind, Spain's repression of separatist movements has a similar character to Russia silencing dissenters or South Korea banning pro-DPRK speech. They are not commendable actions and should be understood as elements of Fascism (capitalism in crisis), yet do not have the historical character that would bring about the crushing forces of imperialism to a larger group of people, like what the UK and France attempt to do both with their domestic policies and their imperialist foreign policy.
spanish repression has been much more violent and much larger scale than either of the episodes you've shared; Islamophobia is less common due to the virtue of spain having large muslim populations its entire existence and being dominated by them in the distant past.
spain does the same things the french and the british do, it's just out of the spotlight of the anglosphere and smaller in impact due it not being a world super power anymore; as you've demonstrated & explained here.