this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2024
215 points (100.0% liked)
chapotraphouse
13541 readers
813 users here now
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Gossip posts go in c/gossip. Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from c/gossip
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Word. Anyone who looks at US convictions and sees that something like 98% of federal convictions and 95% of state convictions are obtained via plea bargains? That's not a legal system, that's forced confessions. "I don't give a shit if you did it. Sign the paper and you get two years plus probation. Force this to go to trial and you get 10 years. Now sign."
If this was an "in bad country" thing everyone would assume those rates were gotten under torture. Like America is so efficient we don't even bother with show trials, we just force them to confess and send them to prison.
The threat of a long sentence at the end of a trial if you lose is one aspect, but the really insidious part is that you'll probably spend longer locked up (in pre-trial detention) regardless of whether you are found innocent, compared to just taking the plea bargain.
Right to a speedy trial*
*On a geological timescale
You pretty much always have to waive that right in order to do anything more than accept the first plea bargain in a case. Even negotiating for a better plea they make you waive it, because everything takes so long. Took me like almost a year of pre-trial supervision before we finally reached a plea I felt I could take. I did fuck up though, so I definitely wasn’t going to take it to trial if I could avoid it. I can’t imagine how horrid the process is for those innocent or being charged with ridiculous charges. It was bad enough living in that hell knowing that I’d fucked up and deserved some sort of justice applied against me. Thankfully I pulled my head out of my ass, sobered up, and funny enough, once I wasn’t drunk all the time, my left leanings came flooding back in a wave of memories as I could think again and I went even further left than I was before I got pulled into hedonism.
You have the right to a speedy trial, and you'll only get the evidence through discovery the day before the trial commences.
Yeah. There've been so many maddening, terrifying stories of people, kids, being held in pre-trial detention of years, or even dying, because "they're a flight risk".
and often people in county lockup are postively wistful for DOC prison time. 23/7 lockdown, often maximum security facilities and because of overcrowding, 3 or 4 to a cell
obviously don't get me started on jails in the desert states of the U.S.
it's designed to break you even though you are technically "innocent until proven guilty"
In Norway they have a queueing system () where you can be sentenced to prison but put on a waitlist until a slot opens up.
It can really fuck with people because they don't know when the government is going to pick them up and chuck them in prison (only that it will happen in the next couple of years)
What's even the point? If they're not enough of a threat to society to be immediately isolated then this is just pure sadism.
Perfectly efficient technocratic sadism
I always get into arguments with people trying to do the "East Asian (usually Japan in the past, sometimes China now due to the propaganda push) countries legal systems are so draconian, 99% conviction rate omg" thing because when you look at things from a material perspective, the "someone in the government with relevant authority decided you might have done a crime, do you end up in prison as a result?" rates aren't higher than in the US, they're lower.
In China prosecutors drop cases that don't looks like they're going to result in conviction. In Japan, cases that aren't a lock just don't get an indictment in the first place. In Japan or China you can be judged likely innocent by the system and not lower the conviction rate while you can be deemed guilty in the US without raising the rate.
It's entirely "bizarre and mysterious orient " shit.
Right? It's so incredibly ass over teakettle 1984 catch-22 the matrix simulacra and simlution schniff schniff ideology that it's absolutely maddening!
As if through the power of complicated accounting and terminology one can change reality. "Well mine is called a plea bargain so it's not really a conviction."