this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2024
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menby

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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.

Detoxing masculinity since 1990!

You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.

Guidelines:

  1. Questions over blame
  2. Humility over pride
  3. Wisdom over dogma
  4. Actions over image

Rules (expansions on the guidelines):

  1. Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
    • Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
    • If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
    • If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
    • This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
    • A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
    • Examples:
      • "This is reactionary. Here's why."
      • "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
      • "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
  2. You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
    • Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
    • If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
    • If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
    • If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
  3. No singular masculine ideal.
    • This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
    • Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
    • Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
    • This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
  4. No lifestyle content.
    • Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
    • Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
    • At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
    • If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.

Resources:

*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Hello comrades, it's time for our first discussion thread for The Will to Change! Please share your thoughts below on the first two sections of the book. There's quite a lot to talk about between hooks' discussion of masculinity discourse within feminist circles, the ways both men and women uphold patriarchy, and the near universal experience of men being forced to suppress their rich emotional worlds from a young age. I'll be posting my thoughts in a little bit after I'm done with work.

If you haven't read the book yet but would like to, its available free on the Internet Archive in text form, as well as an audiobook on Youtube with content warnings at the start of each chapter, courtesy of the Anarchist Audio Library, and as an audiobook on our very own TankieTube! (note: the YT version is missing the Preface but the Tankietube version has it) Let me know if you'd like to be added to the ping list!

Our next discussion will be on Chapters 2 (Understanding Patriarchy) and 3 (Being a Boy), beginning on 12/4.

Thanks to everyone who is or will be participating, I'm really looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts! feminism

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[–] dumples@midwest.social 6 points 7 months ago

Once upon a time I thought it was a female thing, this fear of men. Yet when I began to talk with men about love, time and time again I heard stories of male fear of other males. Indeed, men who feel, who love, often hide their emotional awareness from other men for fear of being attacked and shamed. This is the big secret we all keep together—the fear of patriarchal maleness that binds everyone in our culture.

I think this is the big key passage in the first chapter for me. The fear of the attack on emotions and shame by men against woman and other men. I feel like the on-going and ubiquitous social culture about shaming and mocking of men mostly by other men when they express any emotion or show an interest in something "unmanly" is common across all genders. My own father was never pushing stoicism or macho behavior on me or my brothers. But the social behavior from my peers and mass media was enough to get it engrained deep in my head enough that I can't see when I am hiding my own emotions from myself or self censoring about my life. It puts up a wall about expressing anything that isn't "acceptable" in front of other men. I find it hard to express myself to my male friends unless its the small core group who I trust will understand what I am saying and won't mock it. Or only express it unless I know they have the same interest if its something that isn't traditionally masculine. The more men together the more frightening it becomes.

This relates to a discussed I had with some mixed gender friends about "Bachelor Parties". The woman were saying that they didn't trust bachelor parties. When getting down to the why and they didn't hate that their partners were going to them or even their partners having bachelor parties but it was the random ones. They said that when out and they say a bachelor party they would feel less safe. Thinking about it I felt similar. I know that if I got a group of my male friends together it would be fine. Even if I was in a bachelor party I would feel unsafe if another bachelor party came in. Its the fact that the risk of a really toxic man increases and the group dynamics encourage terrible behavior of conformality to this patriarchal ideal is the problem. The larger the group the more likely it that the dynamic shifts that way. Its the same bullying bell hook's mentions above