Didn't have a chance to write up a detailed post, either on a fruit or the topic I was originally thinking about. I think they're neat and they taste good.
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I agree. It's like when people post the left-handed graph. Sure it's probably correct that once society stops being structurally and culturally transphobic, there will be a cap on how many trans people there are (maybe 3% of population IDK?). But if the rate of trans people was literally growing exponentially so that at some point in the future 100% of people would be trans, there would be nothing wrong with that. Society would have to adjust but we've done so for other stuff.
What's the left-handed graph? I'm not familiar.
Personally, I imagine that, in a society that was truly free of gender-based oppression and where people weren't forced into gender at birth, most people wouldn't even have a gender (though probably a few people would, like as a hobby kinda?). But I could be totally wrong on that. I think you can really only guess how many people would be trans or whatever else once so the bullshit is removed: we're too deep in the bullshit to have any real idea.
This graph. The idea being once discrimination is removed the true value is revealed and stable. People use it to compares to rates of being gay or trans.
But my problem with it is it suggests there's an upper limit on being gay or trans, which is probably true, but it would be also fine if there wasn't.
I agree we're too deep in it to have an idea. That said 3% is a number that keeps popping up in cultures around the world with more tolerant views to being transgender/trans adjacent. Like Samoa with fa'afafine.
Ahhhhh, that makes sense.
3% seems pretty low to me, but the majority of people I know are non-binary trans people, so my perspective might be skewed.
Most western studies put the trans population around 0.5-1%. I tend to think like most researchers this is lower than the true number, due to discrimination, people being closeted, eggs not allowed to crack etc.
Population statistics are weird because 3% is actually a big number in terms of how many people that is and how many people have met someone etc. Individuals are going to know more of their ingroup though. Like Jewish people are 2.4% of the US population but their immediate circles are going to be majority Jewish.
Anyways it's just a number I keep seeing come up for rates of being third gender, two-spirited or any other non western trans populations.
My vibes based feeling is if all barriers were eliminated (and society still had gender) it would be 10% like the anime Dirty Pair. But that's solely vibes.
Hmm, maybe I need to watch dirty pair, lol.
My 100% vibes based analysis is that 0.5-1% and 3% are both low. Both for the reasons you mentioned, but also because I feel like in a more open society there would be a lot more agender, non-binary (non-trinary? for societies with a 3rd gender), people doing thier own gender, etc. Like even in a society with a third gender, while that's better than just two, there is still a lot of pressure to be one of those three, yeah? In guess I feel like too many studies shit trans people still are too binary focused. But idk. Do you work in stats? You probably know more on this than me
You should it's neat.
I mean it obviously depends on the place because a third gender can range from just a different name for trans women or all gender non congruence, but I'd agree the number is probably higher.
I have worked in epidemiology and public health which basically just lets me know how much I don't know about stats.
In the future I want, questions about the "true number" of trans will be about as meaningful as questions about the true number of Monster Hunter Wilds players. Like, a lot of people played it and last week it was more than this week but next week an update will drop so people will play it again.
Same. Like, if I wasn't forced into a gender from birth, and there was no social pressure to have one, then if I did still decide that I want breasts, to be on estrogen and not testosterone, then would I even be trans in anything like the way I am now? Or would that be more like getting a tattoo or piercing is now.
Like in the future i want, things would be so different, I don't think the categories we have now would even apply (for the most part, at least)
Once I wrapped my mind around my own transness it became significantly less clear to me that there would be an upper cap. I would be completely unsurprised if a world without gender oppression saw the vast majority of people bending gender in some way to suit their own expression. And yeah that sounds freaking awesome if you ask me. Or even just not having gender at all