this post was submitted on 20 Apr 2025
95 points (100.0% liked)
chat
8368 readers
244 users here now
Chat is a text only community for casual conversation, please keep shitposting to the absolute minimum. This is intended to be a separate space from c/chapotraphouse or the daily megathread. Chat does this by being a long-form community where topics will remain from day to day unlike the megathread, and it is distinct from c/chapotraphouse in that we ask you to engage in this community in a genuine way. Please keep shitposting, bits, and irony to a minimum.
As with all communities posts need to abide by the code of conduct, additionally moderators will remove any posts or comments deemed to be inappropriate.
Thank you and happy chatting!
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
That and they believe people were walking around trading DnD gold for stuff like it's a fantasy RPG
Generally people have no idea how the modern economy works let alone a medieval one
Didn't the value of coinage used to be held in the metal itself, not trust? I thought that coins used to be semiprecious metals and occasionally precious metals.
While that was once true, you're off by like 500-1000 years on the timeline for gold being a commonly struck currency, depending on what part of the world we're talking about.
Early Lydian coinage was like 40-60% gold and the rest silver, in an alloy called Electrum.
The first gold and silver coinage was issued by Croesus in the 6th century BCE, and then Cyrus the Great ran with that bimetallic system when he introduced coinage to the Achaemenid Empire, but that was pretty much the only time til the 15th century Golden age of Genovese banking, almost two thousand years later that gold coinage was again commonly used.
The Roman accounting system was based around the as, which was a bronze or copper coin, and then multiples of that, which were generally issued in silver or alloys like orichalcum (brass).
Charlemagne introduced the Carolingian coinage system which was silver denominated. This was the official coinage for the HRE for a few hundred years and directly led to more recent coinage.
However, debasement of currency was quite common during both of these eras and while sterling silver was pretty much always used in the British for example, other supposedly equivalent coins struck elsewhere would have entirely different metal compositions and the values became really hard to track as a result, so the origins of coinage became a more important factor than the supposed face value.
Under the Milanese House of Sforza, Genoa basically had the first two banks in Europe and went absolutely buckwild financing the entire continent with gold coins backed by slavery and set the stage for the colonization of the new world and transatlantic slave trade over the next few centuries.
TLDR: In the middle ages, gold coins were something that most people would never see or touch, there's like a 2000 year gap surrounding this era in which the entire continent of Europe pretty much just didn't use gold coins for major denominations that people would actually use because they didn't have access to gold.
There's also a lot more nuance to how coinage was actually used (or how it wasn't) in the medieval economy, but I'm sure someone else will help elucidate this as this is something I don't know much about.
Do you have any book recs about the rise of financing by way of the Sforzas?
It's not specifically or exclusively about Genovese financing in this era, but Before Columbus: Exploration and Colonisation from the Mediterranean to the Atlantic, 1229-1492 by Felipe Fernandez-Armesto was suggested to me by someone back on r/CTH about the rise of colonialism in this era.
We find evidence of lots of tokens being traded around, as well as ledgers keeping track of debt. Barter societies seem to be somewhat mythical, but so does extensive use of currency.
It seems more common that people just kept track of stuff owed or stores issued chits indicating credit. There's some evidence of some of these chits being used very far from the store that issued them which is pretty cool.
Yep, it's even in the Constitution: