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Kids' cavities would increase by millions if every state banned fluoride, study finds
(www.nbcnews.com)
this post was submitted on 30 May 2025
405 points (97.4% liked)
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Fluoride is certainly needed for cavity protection. But. Fluoride was added to water before its mechanism of action was understood.
It was known that people who had naturally-present fluoride in their wells had fewer cavities, so they started emulating the fluoride concentration in city water. Which worked.
But.
We have since learned that fluoridated toothpaste and mouthwash provide more than sufficient quantities of fluoride, such that there is no longer a significant difference between people with fluoridated public water supplies and people with private wells lacking fluoride.
Fluoridated water isn't harmful. But it's not actually beneficial anymore.
You underestimate poverty and child neglect a lot
You mean State neglect. Toothpaste should be free if you're poor
Extend that out.
All basic health care products should be free for everyone regardless of income.
If they're so neglected they're not brushing their teeth, fluoride in the water is not going to help much.
Demonstrably false
Obviously floride in water is not a substitute for toothpaste, but it has been shown to have the greatest effects amongst the poorest children. Spreading lies just leads to poor kids with cavities
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6439886/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0300571200000051
Maybe I'm not spreading lies, maybe I'm merely misinformed. Fuck off. Great way to get me listening to you.
Fluoride is beneficial. Putting fluoride in something that we use is beneficial. But, once you put reasonable concentrations in toothpaste, the trace amounts in water provide no additional benefit.
I'm not saying we should get rid of fluoridation. I'm not saying we should keep it. I'm saying that there is no good reason for outrage one way or another.
Fluoridated water is not an adequate replacement for proper dental hygiene. Getting toothpaste and toothbrushes to poor people is infinitely more important than fluoridated water, and I'll save my own outrage for universal healthcare, including dental.
This particular hill ain't worth dying on.
You're saying lies. Modern studies have shown fluoride in water benefits the poorest children. These are the most vulnerable populations with limited access to dental care (at home and professional).
Stop spreading lies. No it doesn't fully replace toothpaste, but there is a demonstrable benefit
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6439886/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0300571200000051
With or without fluoridated water, the poorest kids have the worst dental health. Fluoridated water significantly - but only partially - improves dental health for the poorest kids.
Rural kids on private, non-fluoridated wells have sufficient dental health despite no access to fluoridated water. They get the majority of their fluoride the same place you get the bulk of your fluoride: toothpaste.
If we are going to rely on passive fluoridation instead of toothpaste, salt is a superior delivery method. Fluoridated salt is used to reach nearly 100% of the populace in many countries, At most, fluoridated water is only available to about 80% of the US. Fluoridated salt allows higher concentrations of fluoride in saliva with lower total consumption.
We only use fluoridated water to duplicate the original discovery. It's actually a piss-poor delivery method.
This "limited access" should be pissing you off infinitely more. Anything less than the "access" you are talking about should be considered neglect. Fluoridated water is only beneficial if we are actively neglecting out kids. When we stop neglecting them, fluoridated water serves no purpose.
You're dying on the "poor kids should have cavities hill" whether or not you realize it. It is shown to work and provide better dental health to the most vulnerable populations. I'm sorry you don't like the facts or the science behind it.
I'm sorry it's not a perfect system, but removing it does nothing but harm. Of course we should be providing everyone access to dental and Healthcare. We can have that conversation AND prevent what we have now that's helping kids from being taken away. You don't take away what you have before providing the improvement.
Now quit advocating/defending the stances of Trump/Republicans and advocate instead for those that will be suffering.
Fluoridated Salt. Toothpaste. Universal healthcare. I keep throwing out vastly superior options, and you keep coming back to the status quo.
Pivot toward progress. They want to kill off a program. What would you need them to agree to before yoy would be willing to let it go?
Fluoridated water only benefits neglected kids. If we didn't have neglected kids, we wouldn't need fluoridated water. What can we do to ensure kids aren't neglected? Let's pivot to that. Let's demand that.
They can get their "win" on something that doesn't matter, and we can get our win on something that actually does.
Progress. To hell with the status quo.
You are still missing the point.
One the government will not be bringing those things into effect now. And before you say it neither of us will be starting an armed revolution so save that rhetoric, but you are welcome to prove me wrong.
Two, you do not end the safety net before you implement the solution. That will only cause harm.
Three, I can fight to maintain access to something that helps poor children today AND pursue a better solution.
All you're doing is supporting the rhetoric of the Republicans and advocating to harm children.
We should strive to be better, but we shouldn't pull away access to our basic social safety nets before we replace them. We should do that only after the better system is in place
You're still advocating the status quo. You are not advocating the "solution".
Instead of actively advocating for improvement, you're actively advocating dragging our feet against Republicans advancing their agenda. You're advocating slowing their regression. You're not advocating progress yourself. You're only trying to slow them down.
You accuse me of missing the point; I assure you, I haven't. I am very well aware that harm will arise if no alternative is enacted. I am trying to redirect your attention toward superior alternatives, but you seem hell bent on buttressing the status quo rather than seeking improvement. You're playing a weak defense. You need to go on the offensive.
I don't know what fantasy land you live in, but there is no way this government will be implementing any progressive reform. Cool dream, but it's not happening. And they certainly won't be preemptively enacting it.
Once again I'm all for your progressive solutions. They sound great, but this government will not enact them. Even if they would they will remove the existing system before hand causing harm and suffering.
Harm and suffering you keep supporting for some reason.
What government are you talking about?
This isn't a federal issue. This is state and local. There are 48 state governments and thousands of county and municipal governments involved in decisions on fluoridated water and public health.
Your heel-dragging approach does not call for improvement, just slowing the regression. You have been exposed to several options in this thread for improvement, by me and several others. You have yet to promote any of them. You are continuing to try to drag your feet rather than promote improvement.
Fluoridated salt is a massive improvement over fluoridated water. Promote fluoridation of salt. Fluoridated toothpaste is a massive improvement over fluoridated water. Promote toothpaste.
For preventing caries, fluoridated water is actually the second worst option, in that it is only marginally better than doing absolutely nothing.
Stop promoting mediocrity. Demand better.
Be glad you live a privileged life and don't have to live with the suffering and harm of your rhetoric.
I will advocate for the better and protect what we have now too because I actually care about people.
I won't hold my breath.
I mean you wouldn't have to hold it long, so go ahead if you'd like. You seem to think I'm anti-progress just because unlike you I don't want children to suffer.
I think the conservative approach you are displaying here is emblematic of the last federal election cycle: pissed off at the direction of travel, but unwilling to actually move forward.
I will notice that you have you to make any public statement toward any of the superior options presented to you, nor have you presented your own. To date, your only comments on alternatives to the second-worst option that you do support has been to denounce the intentions of such proponents as trying to make children suffer.
This is the hill I have been talking about the entire time. This is a particularly stupid hill. The only path off of this hill is back the way you came.
Well so you're wrong there. I've agreed with you quite a few times. I've even stated that we need to expand Healthcare access to everyone.
Also don't bother bringing up the election, that's over and we have a new reality that we need to survive.
So let's actually go through your ideas.
Fluorinated salt great idea, but unfortunately due to interstate commerce laws is unlikely one state could require it. The federal government will not be doing that.
Ending poverty and child neglect. I mean obviously yes, but that's something we've been working on for a while. States actually do tend to try that. Unfortunately due to cuts to federal grants and programs many state services are struggling to help. States alone don't have the budget to make up the deficit. They could raise taxes but Americans are dumb.
Expanding access to dental and medical care. Absolutely, we needed universal Healthcare 30 years ago. However this regime will not be voting for that, and unfortunately many states could now see their Medicaid benefits cut. Meaning less people get benefits. Notably that is the only way I myself was able to have access to dental care.
I agree all of these things would be good, but they are being obstructed at every level. I vote, I protest, but that's not been effective yet. Like I said neither of us are starting the revolution, but feel free to prove me wrong.
The only pragmatic approach left is to fight for what we have and try to force this regime to a standstill (doubt the Senate will do this). My goal is to survive and reduce harm. With any luck we see a reversal during mid-terms but I doubt it.
We're kinda fucked, but by allowing them to remove what safety nets we have will only cause suffering. They will not put better alternatives in their place.
All you have done is offer solutions that are fantasy. This regime will not implement them, and with the cuts many states are facing they can't afford to. Instead of only supporting your idea of a perfect solution, fight to keep our current safety nets in place. Fight to reduce suffering, and then fight for something better.
I want a better world, but in the short term I want to reduce suffering. Thankfully I won't fall for your fallacies, you can have both. And I will do both
Yet you only promote the second-worse world available. Curious.
Conservatism is a disease.
That's honestly a hilarious response. Backed into a corner much?
Enjoy the child suffering you're so fond of, and keep denying the science. ✌️
This was my understanding as well. Also, high fluoride concentrations can be deleterious, but those concentrations aren't found in our water supplies.