The Democratic People's Republic of Tankiejerk

But the end goal of communism is that there isn’t a hierarchical government of professional bureaucrats in the final stage of communist society.

Sure, but what the other poster is saying is that getting there is nearly impossible because a significant number of people are always going to manipulate things so that they end up with authority. The people who go on to become psychopathic CEOS aren't simply going to stop being born. The people who innately seek "more" aren't going to stop being born either.

So you need a solid plan to deal with those kinds of people because they aren't going to stop existing.

What communists, libertarians, and anarchists never seem to grasp is that their "end goal" would be a highly temporary state. Tribes will form. Somebody will start gathering power of one form or another, and then the cycle starts anew.

Yes... but the "how you get there" stage never actualizes which means maybe there's something more fundemenally wrong with the theory.

To overthrow the resting state of a government you need power. That power generally doesn't work if it isn't organized so like it or not the efficiency of hierarchy ends up being key to creating the resistance able to take over and have the ability to enforce the set of ideals.

Now Communism wants a society that is laterally structured as possible which means that any new hierarchy that attempts to assemble itself is antithetical to the whole idea. The minute a hierarchy appears it is more structured and more efficient in disseminating it's directives because it works off of deffering the stages of debate and arriving at concensus... So the first hierarchy that forms in a lateral system has game advantage right off the bat unless it is stopped.

Now humans in a lateral power structure don't always agree. You can't count on all of them being conditioned to unilaterally and naturally oppose these hierarchies as they emerge. People are generally unhappy if government is slow and doesn't appear to be addressing their concerns - which is basically a problem with every Government because the allocation of resources and expertise is finite. Dissidents are going to happen and they are going to organize.

...But in a political landscape weak against emerging hierarchy and dependent on hierarchy not appearing how do you stop an emerging hierarchy from upsetting the apple cart? You have a standing force in place. Every attempt thusfar has either been capitalism with a red coat of paint or whatever revolutionary force overthrew the standing power remaining in place and exerting force against a population to keep the power of the masses atomized in the name of a system "without hierarchy" ignoring the hierarchy of the standing power because they are supposed to hand over the power at some point.

That point never actualizing is the bit Communist writers never really address. If the former revolutionaries let up the force used to keep people from organizing themselves Communism as it works in practice falls apart and the things they do to keep themselves in power are authoritarian because it is directed to stop the political will of others outside of their official hierarchy. Once you remove personal wealth from individual hands you also lock people inside the system because they have to accept that to move outside the boundaries they to leave to pursue life under other systems they will need do so with virtually nothing.

I’ve lived under a communist regime. Doesn’t work. Many countries have tried, doesn’t work. The people running things will always be the rich and all you do is create an even bigger divide between the haves and have nots

So they say. It is impossible, though.

Y'know it's possible to dislike 2 things at once?

Classic whataboutism.

Why does saying one thing doesn’t work, mean I’m a lover of the thing you hate? Why are you an extremist?

That's a false dichotomy, there are other options than textbook communism and unregulated capitalism