this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2023
793 points (97.7% liked)

News

23367 readers
2717 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil


Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.


2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.


Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.


Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.


5. Only recent news is allowed.


Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.


6. All posts must be news articles.


No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.


7. No duplicate posts.


If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.


8. Misinformation is prohibited.


Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.


9. No link shorteners.


The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.


10. Don't copy entire article in your post body


For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] jkmooney@kbin.social 200 points 1 year ago (20 children)

I don't know, this person has done a lot of decent things in his life. I'm not inclined to judge him by his worst decision.

[–] Backspacecentury@kbin.social 139 points 1 year ago (9 children)

While I would tend to agree, if I'm reading this correctly, they sent the letters for the sentencing... meaning he was already convicted of rape and they were pleading for leniency for an old rapist buddy, like within the last few months. That is a really bad look no matter how you slice it.

[–] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 169 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (6 children)

He's also an old friend.

I don't believe in guilt by association. Asking for leniency for an old friend to a judge, and he didn't get it, doesn't make them monsters or rapists by proxy.

If our culture demands every felon be shunned by their friends and family members going forward, then end the perverse charade and just kill everyone upon a felony conviction.

Masterson did a very bad thing, some friends wrote letters to inform the judge that that isn't all he is and to consider that, not out of malice, but out of compassion.

Man, the internet has absolutely destroyed the concept of nuance. Then again, we only see our "justice," lol, system as a way to turn the screws on bad people... that our society made, btw. Wanton spectator cruelty without the guilt. Not even a hint of attempts at rehabilitation, and just about everyone roots for a parolee's failure to confirm their biases.

Advocating maximum cruelty be inflicted on a perpetrator shouldn't be confused with compassion for the victim. Americans largely ignore that distinction, because it's convenient, easy, and pleasurable to revel in cruelty and call it kindness.

[–] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 60 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Or... we could accept that Masterson RAPED people, and maybe don't give him any support, regardless of his past actions. We don't need to hold out a hand for the fallen rapist. There are too many people in the world that genuinely need help that wasting even an iota of effort on a rapist is a slap in the face to them, not to mention the people the rapist has harmed. There is no nuance.

[–] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (8 children)

Thank you for making my point.

Masterson did RAPE people. Now, do we want to punish him and rehabilitate him, or get our vengeance boner on and beat on him because that hilariously makes our society feel virtuous?

So much for society demonstrating being better than than those that violate its laws. Blood! Blood! More blood! Give us bloooood!

[–] lingh0e@lemmy.film 67 points 1 year ago (24 children)

Don't be glib. If it came out that my oldest friend wqs not only a rapist, but also used his fame and religion to silence the victims and avoid prosecution... AND I was involved with an organization with the express purpose of stopping sex abuse... I'd absolutely tell that friend to pound sand.

There were multiple times when I learned that friends of mine were sexually assaulted, some of those times were by people I considered friends. There's zero chance that I'd do anything to "put in a good word" for the rapists I once called friends, because their actions in my company have ZERO baring on how they acted in private.

Tl;Dr: If you're vouching for the upstanding nature of a convicted rapist based on your interactions when he wasn't being a duplicitous rapist... that says more about your ignorance to how terrible that person can be as opposed to the good works you saw from the rapist when they weren't raping. You're also a victim.

load more comments (24 replies)
[–] meco03211@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Except this isn't about Masterson. This is about Kutcher's support for him. If I have a friend that turns out to be a rapist, that's not a friend. That's someone hiding an important, deal breaking secret. If you've hidden that from me, I'm not going to tell a judge you're an otherwise good person that shouldn't be punished accordingly. If I kept that person as a friend after their rapist nature is revealed, that speaks very poorly on my judgement.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

I'm not saying that we need to flog the guilty. I'm just saying that we don't need to offer him more help than anyone else would get. Is Kutcher writing letters to every judge involved in a rape case and asking for them to go easy because the perp was a youth pastor? Justice is supposed to be blind. If celebrities, politicians, etc. get special treatment then we aren't working to fix society, we are letting people in power run around doing whatever the fuck they want. Masterson should receive all the help the justice system affords a rapist, but not one bit more, and definitely not because he has celebrity friends writing letters on his behalf.

[–] blackbelt352@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

For just about any other crime I'd tend to agree with the sentiment, but for nearly any other crime I can come up with some hypothetical scenario where that crime is justifiable, where I can comprehend the reasoning behind the act.

I can't come up with any hypothetical where rape or sexual assault is justifiable.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Cheems@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago

Well, so I get that asking for leniency for an old buddy sure. However.. the specific crimes he committed and the organization that Ashton works for/runs whatever. That's a bad fucking look. That's a real bad fucking look. Like, that undermines a lot of shit he's done look.

[–] reverendsteveii@sopuli.xyz 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

It doesn't make them rapists by proxy, but it does make them someone who believes the rapist they like should be the exception.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Laticauda@lemmy.ca 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Nobody is saying it makes them monsters or rapists by proxy, it just makes them friends of a rapist who stayed his friend even after it was proven that he raped at least two people, and then asked for him to be treated leniently even though he certainly didn't grant any leniency to the people he raped. And they're free to do that. But disapproving of that isn't guilt by association, that's just them making choices regarding their relationship with a rapist that other people are free to judge and criticize them for.

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They said he was a role model

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago

It's not like he just stole a car or something. Rapists deserve the worst punishments we have to offer.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] Hyperreality@kbin.social 63 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Although I tend to agree, I think this was also the correct decision. He would have distracted from the good work the organisation does.

[–] AnusBesamus@feddit.de 5 points 1 year ago

While the organization might do good work, I see far too many red flags in their demands. They are lobbying against end-to-end encryption for chat messages. The argument is that child abusers can hide behind encryption. While this is true, a ban would lead to no privacy for everyone.

The real-life equivalent would be mandatory microphones for everyone so authorities could catch child molesters more easily. Good cause but horrible methodology. And of course, if they succeed, criminals will move to other, maybe their own-built, messaging systems that still have encryption.

https://www.thorn.org/blog/encryption-trend-threatens-child-safety-gains/

[–] Windshear@lemmy.ca 27 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Get out of here with your reason. That's not what the internet is for. Now, would you like a torch or pitchfork?

[–] ThePantser@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (3 children)
[–] PopShark@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If that isn’t already the name of some obscure software or package/library/etc I’ll be disappointed it already sounds like I need to import it into my Python code idk what it does but without it shit just crashes

The Torchfork really ties the program together

[–] chaogomu@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago

https://pytorch.org/docs/stable/generated/torch.jit.fork.html

I'm not a coder, but I found this in like, 5 seconds.

[–] RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Cooks your food while you're eating it!

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–] QHC@lemmy.one 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it's fair to judge someone directly involved with covering up a rapist when that person is also very vocal and actively involved in combating exactly that crime. That's a pretty massive lapse in judgement and more indicative of his true character than someone that had a single instance of road rage or similar emotional outburst.

[–] habanhero@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

directly involved with covering up a rapist

This is a pretty serious accusation. Just because he wrote a character letter does not mean he is actively involved in covering up a crime, that's a gigantic leap.

his true character

And what would that be? A person who vouches for his friend? Someone who misjudged another person's character, a mistake presumably you'd never make?

I think it's fair to judge

No, you think it's fun to judge and it's your excuse to feel morally righteous and superior. You've made some accusations and backhanded disparagement based on what info? How is any part of it "fair"?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] xkforce@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago

His worst decision was very relevant to the organization he was part of. I get that they are friends but he probably should be in a good position to understand how unlikely it is that his friend was innocent and how dumb it would be to put himself on the line defending him given what that organization stands for.

[–] reverendsteveii@sopuli.xyz 16 points 1 year ago

Condemn him? No. Judge him? Yeah, a little bit.

[–] TheKingBee@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)
[–] FinnFooted@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I mean... He tocuhed a door knob and didn't know it was a crime scene to report.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] MelonYellow@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Oh wow, sounds like he freaked out and confided with Masterson that night. Interesting context in light of this character letter controversy and as far as their relationship goes.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] steakmeout@aussie.zone 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

OK, now think of this from the perspective of the victims of Danny Masterson's crimes - what do you think they feel about Ashton's letter of support?

That we can say Kutcher was wrong for supporting Masterson while also acknowledging that Kutcher has done good things. People aren't good or bad, they are a mixture. Condemn the bad traits and praise the good traits.

[–] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Is that quote taken directly out of his letter supporting his rapist buddy?

load more comments (10 replies)