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this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2023
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City design and suburbs. Like if I had to drive 40 minutes to get groceries I would prefer to starve and those suburbs look like death would be the better alternative. Also driving to go for a walk, wtf?
No one in a real city or suburb is driving 40 minutes to get groceries in the US.
I was being somewhat hyperbolic, the point was you guys have to drive everywhere to do anything which is so alien to me. Or I guess take public transit which always sounds horrible when Americans describe it, which is also something that sounds so weird to me about the US.
You're right, we do have to drive to get anywhere outside of major cities. The funny thing is that even the most rural area has a fleet of busses and routes that cover every home. The problem is that they only come through twice a day on weekdays during the school year. Other than that these busses just sit around forcing old folks who can't to drive anyway.
A lot of my coworkers live 30-50m from work. It would drive me nuts.
I'm in America and I've always lived a 10 to 15 minute walk away from the store. It's that a long walk compared to Europeans? I think I was further from a store when I was in Germany for a week. Like 30 minute walk.
Are you saying that's the norm in the US?
I have always been about 5 minutes walk from the grocery store in Estonia.
Yeah for the majority that live in the cities. Less people live in the country and most of the country towns still have a food mart. So most Americans don't live that far from a store.
"most Americans" don't live in a city that dense and certainly drive to the store for groceries. But when I say "to the store" it's not the same as what Europeans think. It's not a little corner store where you get your groceries for the day. It's a giant Walmart/Kroger where you load up for the whole week so you don't have to go as often.
Nah, they certainly do.
this is half America's population and each of those places is centered around major cities in the area.
Sure, that's what the bulk of Americans do because it's easier but it's certainly possible for them to walk to the store. Everyone drives because they are lazy. I'm American, you can't tell me we are lazy and fat and thus only want to go to the store once a week or less. Also compared to European stores, our stores are huge and purposely confusing. So they can get you to walk around the store more. So your fat lazy ass will get hungry and impulse buy a bunch of stuff. Also, the things at eye level have the most markup which tend to be the most processed foods.
Are you serious? Look at that map. Those yellow areas are absolutely massive. It includes huge swathes of suburban areas, not "dense cities". I mean look at Dallas, Atlanta, or SoCal in that pic. My point is that in those suburban areas most people are not within a reasonable walking distance of a grocery store.
Just because they're centered around a major metro area doesn't mean the people living there are close to one. I live in on of those cities in what someone would consider an "urban/suburban" area. For me to walk to my closest grocery store it would take me 30 minutes each way according to Google maps. That's not reasonable. Keep in mind that you've got to actually carry the groceries on the way back. And I'm probably in a denser area than most.
EDIT: According to the USDA, americans are on average 2.2 miles from a SNAP authorized store. That's a 45 minute walk each way. No Americans are not just "lazy" for not walking to the store. It just isn't a reasonable think to do at all.
I've never lived in a city proper. Only suburbs and never been more than 15 minutes away from a store walking. Closer if you count the many corner stores attached to every gas station. Maybe this is coast living vs inner America though.
I guess it's a misconception then that living in the US without a car is very difficult.
That is not a misconception at all with the exception of a few very densely packed cities like New York City.
lol that's fair. But also, the there's a cyclical relationship between suburbs and grocers. If you build suburbs, the grocers arrive. Where there are grocers, people might live and form suburbs. You really only have to "drive 40 minutes to get groceries" if you're waaaaaaaaaaaaay out in the sticks. Or, and I'm sorry to say it, what's more likely, is you live in a dense, urban area and are very near groceries, but can't afford a vehicle to get there directly, and so you've got to walk to the bus stop and wait for the bus to come around. This could definitely total 40 minutes to go get some eggs and milk. It's a fucking tragedy.
There a certain ironic cycle there. The cycle you describe of building the suburbs, stores moving in, and people moving in is one part of the cycle. This leads to over-development (in that fucked up car-centric way we have, which leads to traffic congestion etc), and people start moving further out to get away from it. They end up on the edges of it "in the country" with maybe a 40 minute drive for groceries. But then often, the sprawl follows them and their bit of "the country" gets more and more like what they fled.
Grocery is always 5 minutes away in the suburbs. I think you underestimate the amount of stores
5 Minute by car if your suburb is not completely fucked.
But that is also kinda the point, how long do you have to walk to get groceries?
I mean you don't walk....
If you were to walk it could literally be an hour walk or more for some people.
Why would I want to walk? Then I have to carry all my shit home. I'm a 5 min walk from my nearest store. I still drive there, every time.
I think you underestimate the sprawl of suburbs.
American here. I hate this too. I am a proponent of convenient walking locations and far better public transportation, and it doesn't look like America's gonna give a damn about those in my lifetime.
Not Just Bikes (YouTube channel talking about this) basically said they've given up on any hope for north america.