270
Hydrogen vehicles in Denmark left without fuel as all commercial refuelling stations shuttered
(www.hydrogeninsight.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 21 Sep 2023
270 points (98.2% liked)
World News
37319 readers
3520 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect!
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
....but, but, but hydrogen is the future!1!!
Found the Toyota CEO.
Where does all of the anti hydrogen rhetoric come from? Hydrogen has its issues for sure but so does electric. Hydrogen has advantages to electric, namely range and refueling time, which may make it a better choice, at least for certain applications.
What's so horrible about Toyota investing in it? At least someone is giving it a shot and they actually have a production automobile that uses it.
Here we are going all in on electric with a grid that can't support it, charging times that are too slow, driving range that's too low and housing that can't accommodate it but hydrogen is somehow a crazy idea?
I get the feeling the same people who were anti nuclear are now pushing anti hydrogen without realizing they're falling right into fossil fuel's division.
Because there's no real attempt to roll out hydrogen infrastructure and almost all the attempts we're seeing to paint hydrogen as the future are actually just anti-EV FUD. Hydrogen is the future! ... but it isn't ready yet, so keep buying gas cars for now.
Same goes for nuclear, at least in my country - the political party that's now talking up nuclear while in opposition didn't say a word about nuclear while they were in government. They were trying to fund new coal plants. They're talking about nuclear to slow down renewables, they don't actually plan to build new nuclear plants. They want to protect their big donors in the coal industry.
Hydrogen fuel cells probably have a future somewhere, but it isn't in cars. The filling stations are too expensive and the hydrogen itself is too expensive.
Battery EVs are about to pass the range of fuel cell EVs, you know? They can't actually hold that much hydrogen. And they only fill faster if the filling station has a long break between vehicles - fill a couple of cars in a row and you'll be there for 20 minutes.
It comes from brainwashed BEV owners and companies. In reality, it is a huge greenwashing industry designed to distract from the fact that fossil fuel consumption continues. It is only a matter of time before the BEV fad ends and we begin taking real ideas more seriously. Hydrogen will be one of them. So will nuclear in all likelihood.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out that's for sure. Every time I drive by a rest stop on the highway I imagine what the gas lines would look like if those people were instead lining up to spend 20+ minutes minimum at a charging station.
Even if you put a charger in every parking space it would likely be a problem. Those lots fill up as it is and I can't even fathom the electrical feeds required for that.
I think the people saying "oh it's just electricity we already have that" are a bit dilusional. It's going to require enormous investment into infrastructure and even then it may not be feasible.
I think it's one of those things that seems great when only a handful of people are doing it but will become a nightmare as more EVs end up on the road.
Its great for those who have a dedicated place to park their car, can charge at home and only commute a short distance back and forth to work but it falls short for many.
It reminds me of those who think "food comes from the grocery store!" And not realize that there is an entire infrastructure behind that. Electricity is the same. It will take trillions of dollars to move all cars to electricity. Realistically, it won't happen. There are too many pitfalls and challenges in the way. The most likely outcome is that we stop pushing BEVs so hard and move in another direction.
Because Toyota spent something like ~~15~~ 31 years developing a shitty performing, very expensive hydrogen car that they then sold hardly any units of and there are still no filling stations to fill them.
If you think battery electric cars are expensive, how about spending $75,000 on basically a Toyota Corolla? Sure you can drive 600 mi on one tank but...
To say that Toyota fucked up is an understatement.
Toyota is one of the largest auto makers in the history of the world. They're practically their own government, and have more than enough money bankroll a burgeoning technology tree. To say they fucked up by testing a brand new technology and developing it in-house, seemingly on their own until recently (BMW and Mercedes have both joined Toyota in their development process within the last 5 years) is bonkers.
Any new technology or idea generally has a long road to maturity. You wouldn't say the quest for quantum computing or the unified field theory are complete wastes of time and money when we're discovering things along the way. Hydrogen may not work out for your consumer vehicle, but it absolutely works better than electric for those trans-oceanic container ships and shooting rockets to the moon.
Unfortunately capitalism will keep killing things that are good for the environment while we spend 7 trillion subsidizing fossil fuels.
Hydrogen really isn't good for the environment. You have to spend electricity to make it, then storing it is a massive issue just to turn it back into electricity. There's some advantage to it with very large and heavy vehicles, but not for cars. Batteries make a lot more sense for cars, and you can charge them almost anywhere (theoretically). I can see shipping and maybe trucking moving towards hydrogen at some point, especially since shipping in particular is an extremely convenient location to produce hydrogen.
I wish more people understood this. We aren't going to find a one size fits all replacement for oil. It's going to be using all the different renewable sources in different applications where they excel.
It's because people dont understand that hydrogen is a energy carrier and if we want to produce it in e green way it is more comparable to batteries than petroleum.
Agreed. We're going to see hydrogen being used in industrial scaled uses in the future more than transportation.
However, I just watched the video a few days ago about the Canadian mining company that is switching all of their mining equipment to battery electric. I thought that was pretty interesting - The mine operator flatly said that hydrogen wasn't financially viable.
So I'm thinking hydrogen being used for steel manufacturing, chemical manufacturing and other major large scale materials processing.
We're going to use hydrogen for all things transportation. It's pretty much the obvious next step since we still need chemical fuels. There is just too much BEV propaganda and peopled totally deluded about how transportation works.
Haha someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning.
So you think 9 trillion couldn't be spent better than fossil fuel subsidies?