this post was submitted on 15 Nov 2023
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Being mad at an independent landlord is like being mad at the dog shit you just stepped on instead of the motherfucker that didn't pickup after his dog.
Many independent landlords are people who decided to take her everything they had on a derelict home that nobody was going to buy, fix it up, and make it available. These are people that dream to get out from under the boot and are willing to bet it all for a chance. A landlord with one or two rentals are probably struggling to keep their head above water and almost for sure have a full time job as well as the maintenance of the rental, and probably the fixing up of another.
This is how the system is rigged. If you want to mortgage a house, you need to have a lot of money down, steady income, and a good credit score. Mortgaging a fully remodeled house in order to rent it doesn't work because you'll never be able to rent it for that much. Mortgaging an ugly house to rent doesn't work most of the time because you need to remodel it "nice" and you need to find a tenant willing to pay a premium for a pig wearing lipstick. Most times, even when the house is done up, the neighborhood isn't. Next up, if you want to mortgage a derelict house that you plan to bring back from the dead, wether to rent or live in, YOU CAN'T. The only way to buy those homes is cash. In other words, neither homebuyers nor wannabe landlords have access to the only homes that might provide a good value. Wanna guess who can? Investment funds. They are the ones raping renters, not the poor schmuck that's trying to play the game the way they were told it was supposed to work. That schmuck is fucked, they just don't know it.
My wife and I owe the current life we lead in great part to a lady that decided to rent her duplex to two college students for $275 twenty years ago. She died and her daughter sold all the houses the lady owned (she owned the entire street in that ghetto) to a fund. Each duplex (meaning, half a house) now goes for $1200 (still a ghetto) and now requires a credit check and two months deposit.
Get mad at the rigged system, not at the other suckers stuck in it. Don't be a crab in the bucket.
EDIT: There are good independent landlords and there are bad ones. There is no such thing as a good real estate investment funds.
But, like, no one has to be a landlord. If it’s so hard, sell the fucking house.
You do as you're told. You study hard, you go into student debt, you get a job, you make your debt payments, you live frugally and somehow end up with a few bucks extra in your bank account every month. After a few years you've got yourself some money set aside. What do you do with that money in order to get out from under the boot off the system? Here are your options.
At least when you buy and fix a wreck there is some sense of agency. It feels like you can do something about it. We are told to do our part, be responsible, play our part and we will be rewarded, but it's a lie. It's been a lie since Reagan was elected and it got way worse under every administration since. They love it when we get at each other's throat like this because it's what stops us from setting fire to the whole thing.
PS: Person buys home to rent with the dream of actually owning something tangible. Person nets 2% if they're lucky but they are happy because at least they aren't losing. Everyone on the Internet hates them. If the same person buys shares in a real estate fund that's literally making people homeless, buying trailer parks and evicting everyone, etc., they will make as much as 20% return yet nobody here bats an eye. That's the poison right there. That's the disconnect and how they keep us down. Why own anything and be a decent human being when I can log into this app, give it my money and not have to worry about who my money hurts?
Love how you're getting downvoted for making clear and logical arguments. Notice how no one has, or will have, a rebuttal?
It ain't the landlords kids, it's the real estate empires fucking you over. The answer is federal legislation saying any single entity can only own, I dunno, 10 or 100 houses? Devil and details and all, but these megacorps should not be able to own 10,000 homes. And of course, we need exceptions for lenders like banks that have an inventory of foreclosed properties that don't magically get insta purchased and fall off the books.
Who am I kidding. There's too much money to ever turn that boat around.
You're solution doesn't solve the thing you're trying to solve.
E.g.
There is a "mom & pop" landlord with just 10 properties. But they don't purchase anymore. Now there are 1000 such landlords. The landlords all incorporate and create a REIT that owns 10,000 homes. You have created a "megacorp" through just "mom and pop" landlords.
What is the difference?
The true answer is the abolition of landlords in favour of housing coops and community land trusts.
To prove a point to you I'll ask you a question.
What is the difference between the goal of small landlords vs REITs and "megacorps" represented by row 4 of the graph found here?:
https://www.smalllandlords.org/about-small-landlords/
The group is a small landlord group from my city.
I don't have a problem with the players necessarily, just the game.
I'm lazy so I invest because I don't want to deal with being a landlord. Anyone who chooses to be a landlord deserves no sympathy. They chose to be a landlord instead of investing. You can get easy R.E. exposure by just being R.E.I.T.s so any extra work is your problem. On top of that landlords expect extra respect for something that REITs do. It's all the same game so all should be looked down upon.
Wanting to play as a boot when the game rewards playing the boot is ok so long as you advocate against the boot. But a lot of these people glorify the boot and try to become one sooo bad and for that, all of them can have the death penalty on them.
In short, want real estate? REITs, do you want to become a boot? Invest. But most importantly of all, be a boot abolitionist. If you're a boot defender then you rightfully get criticism.
I think your saying doing something physical is better than through an app. It makes no difference. It's all the same. But I do agree more awareness needs to be had with REITs. The solution is not to go easy on landlords but rather to go hard on REITs.
A bit off topic from your point, but there is no way to get screwed if you just invest for 10+ years in all market index funds from something like vanguard. The only way you're going down in that situation is if the whole system goes down for good. Also government bonds go well above inflation. There are options for regular people, but both of those options likely mean financially supporting things you might not believe in. Like a imperial government and a dirty energy focused economy. The only way it's a casino is if you buy individual stocks. Index funds are the safest way for regular people to make more money than inflation, you just have to be willing to let your money sit for a long time. You don't invest in index funds if you're unwilling to wait for the boom and bust cycles to pass a few times.
It's not hard, it's just expensive and intense at times. But it's lucrative and pays off after years of upkeep and maintenance that the renters NEVER do. I ain't selling the house. Don't hate the players, hate the game.
But why would the tenant maintain the property? I mean, I'm a tenant and will carry out low level repairs if I cause any damage, or if entropy means that something looks shabby. But beyond that? It's not my fucking house. My landlord just put my rent up by £50 a month to cover "the rising cost of maintenance". They've not done a single bit of maintenance in the year I've lived here.
I can hate both the players and the game, because it's rigged.
Right. I'm paying you for the home I'm living in. It's a service you're providing me as a tenant. I don't own the house, if I did I would pay someone to fix my shit.
Spoken like a lazy pos
OK, what's your plan for housing then? Run right out and purchase your own home? Got the cash and credit for that I assume?
Oh, and if your HVAC dies, the only phone call you're making is to the local contractor. Hopefully it's a $20 capacitor and not a $5,000 new unit. Hope you've got a lot of DIY experience or a load of cash!
If the renter doesn't pay for maintainance who does? Are you willing to run a monthly loss of $100/month or would raise rents to cover or even sell the property?
The solution is cooperative housing and community land trusts plus social housing.
My landlord is a farmer. He's out on the fields everyday. Comes to fix our boiler with his hands covered in fresh chicken shit. The rent is expensive, but it could be much worse considering.
My landlord was a single mother and she provided for me for years before becoming my landlord. She had me paying rent since I was 7 and that's when I learned to appreciate landlords.
Bro you're killing it in this comment section. Bravo
I hope so, people need to learn to sympathize with their lords.
While they are landlords, i prefer to refer to them as Kings
I knew this guy years ago that bought up basically free property during the housing crisis. Houses were so undesirable in Detroit at the peak of the housing crisis, you could buy a house for $100, as they were considered a liability. His goal was to fix them up himself and then provide them to the community as extremely low rent residences, if anyone wanted to buy them after they were fixed up he would give priority to his renters at slightly above cost (cost of materials) as a rent to own system (not one of the scummy ones but a real system in their favor). He had no intention of making money, he just believed it was the right thing to do. Dude was just a good person through and through.
Nah man. The dude was a saint. It takes a special kind of selflessness to do something like that.
This is me.
Bought a nearly 100 year old house earlier this year, 1.5 hours away from where I live. I work full time.
I've spent nearly every weekend and ALL of my free cash (plus credit that I'll likely be paying off for a few years) to replace the sewer lines, insulate the crawlspace and basement, replace the roof, replace the siding, replace the leaking windows, update the electrical, update the plumbing, replace old appliances, replace corroded cabinet hardware, seal holes around the house from rodents, paint the walls, ceiling, and cabinetry inside the house, remove and clean up a dilapidated wood shed, empty an incredible amount of rotten and corroded junk from the basement, CLEAN the basement, replace the broken door to the basement, fill in and repair cracked and broken concrete, replace the rotten hot tub, and ongoing efforts to prevent water from flooding the basement every time it rains.
And I'm not finished. Not even close. There is so much to be done to make this place work and make sure it stays in good condition for years to come.
The initial priority was pest control, deep cleaning, painting, and furnishing. Once that was done the place was listed on AirBnB. It's helped to offset the costs, but will take decades to break even. After utilities, taxes, supplies, and expenses for cleaning between guests I'm pulling in maybe a couple hundred dollars a month. But it helps.
AirBnB is also a big part of the problem. If you want to rent your fully furnished apartment for $1300 (net to you), by the time AirBnB is done with fees to you and the tenant, the tenant is being charged $2200. It's obscene. AirBnB and VRBO were originally meant to help homeowners offset there cost of their homes by renting a room or the entire place while they were away. Now they are these monstrosities that do nothing but syphon money from homeowners and tenants.
I'm glad you're fixing up the place and keeping it off the hands of investment funds. Once it's fixed up, if possible, I'd recommend renting it directly to a tenant for a bit under market rate. Management companies tend to price gouge tenants (and owners), and they con you into raising rent every year. They don't care if the tenant can't afford it or if the place stays empty for months. If you can find a tenant that is decent and treats your property well, stick with them, even if you make less than maximum on a monthly basis by charging less than market. Pass the savings of not having a middle man to your tenant and everyone (except the middle man) wins.
We need solid legislation getting us back to this. It's a great idea, but now it's abused to hell and back.
OTOH, aren't renters and owners alike leaving AirBnB in droves?
We are actually fixing it up for family to live in. We have overseas relatives who visit for 6 months a year. When they are not here, we might use it for ourselves as well - but more likely we will rent to traveling nurses.
I'm not interested in being a long term landlord. I've lived with enough self-entitled roommates to want to never have to be on the other side of that relationship as a landlord.
Why AirBnB and not the usual lease agreement?
Guessing so they can continue the work in between guests. Probably not in a state to lease out as then they are under a lot more obligations to quickly fix bigger issues
> Spends loads of time and money on fixing up an old house
> Rents it out to offset costs
> Gets downvoted for being a landlord
> Spends money buying microshares of a ruthless real estate fund on Robinhood
> Gets upvoted for gaming the system
Landlords, can't do anything right
Don't make your problems everyone else's.
You can just buy a REIT.
Imagine the contractor that works for a REIT. Should they get full rent because they broke their the same way as you? Or hourly, just like my roommate?
You get the rent because you're a landlord, not because you work hard.
If working hard on a property, instead of owning it, meant getting all of the high rents then the REITs' contractor should be collecting rents instead of the REITs but that obviously doesn't happen.
Don't defend landlording. Oppose it, you can still be one, but just oppose it.
Would you make the same if you sank all of your money in investments and work a second job as a contractor? Same story but different results?
If you had long term tenants and but they owned the property but contracted you? You would still work hard and be compensated for the work isn't that enough? If the work the justification for your rental income then why not just be a contractor instead of an owner? And better yet leave the owning part to the people who live there.
So instead of buying a home that needed a lot of work and spending a lot of money locally in order to accomplish that work and making minimal (if any) profit, I should just give my money to an investment firm who will be both shittier AND more expensive to renters, while siphoning money away from that local market?
Please explain how me investing in a REIT rather than actual real estate solves your problem.
How about not hording property? Did she have a house? Did she need to own a entire ghetto? I have no pity or empathy to people who own multiple houses and rent them.
She and her husband literally restored an entire street that had been derelict since the Louisiana oil crash by using her husband's pension and disability after having destroyed his body working on the rigs. Literally abandoned homes that they fixed, made livable and rented, without credit check or any other bullshit, for affordable prices. Our street was the only safe street in the entire neighborhood, and also the only one where the homes were in good condition. Nobody wanted this homes. Nobody had the means or desire to fix them. Stop trying to manufacturer villains around the narrative you're being fed. People can't afford homes because of funds and companies specifically designed to hoard shit. That's why prices are skyrocketing.
NOPE SHE'S A PIECE OF SHIT LANDLORD SCUM
signed,
the internet
You're overlooking the fact of why these homes were available and left in disrepair.
I mentioned it before. There was a major economic collapse. Louisiana had an oil boom followed be a collapse. Families bought homes they could comfortably afford, then one day they had no job and no prospect for a job. Nobody did. Entire communities moved out or collapsed.
Agreed. The average landlord is playing the long game for themselves but isn't much of a target and can't do much about the market as a whole, it's usually about a lack of collective pushback across the board that allows things like rents or food prices to spike or shift above CPI and inflation ranges, I won't pretend to know what I'm talking about because there's obviously a lot of factors involved that myself and many others all have yet to figure out, but I don't think landlords are the only people we should be mad at, that's just biting your friend or caretaker rather than looking for a systemic answer that provides collective benefit