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Now I see why we're talking past each other.
For whatever reason you're very tied up in the legal argument, which of course no one is disputing right now. I'm talking strictly about the moral argument for supporting higher education, not the current legal framework under which it operates in the united states. The legal framework is downstream from our ethics, and what I'm trying to get to you is that a modern society requires specialization that is not tied to remuneration. Teachers get paid shit in this country, but we still need children to be educated (even if you don't have kids, you still benefit from kids going to school because they help build the things you use every day). For whatever reason you keep ignoring (I think we know why) that you benefit EVERY DAY from the improvements modern society gives you, and that benefit comes from an educated class which unfortunately in the US is funded through private loans.
Holy shit. I wish I was privileged enough to call 40 - 50 k shit pay with pension, longevity, and medical benefits.
That aside though politics is merely a proxy for one's moral standing. Which is why objective facts never sway anyone to a political opinion. Morale arguments might unless someone's morality is firmly established.
I see your argument is that I benefit from ppl going to school. And to that I counter with this. Typically educated ppl in the higher echelons of society hate the class under them. Teachers are more dispositioned to liberalism which makes them hate uneducated rightoids like me. The worst venom I've ever had spit in my direction came from shitlibs higher educated during the pandemic. How about Cops? They are higher educated and yet provide the worst of the worst service on society. Grinding down minority communities based on the collective good of suburban white educated society beating down on the ghettos and urbanite population.
Doctors went full retard during the pandemic introducing medical tyranny. Not even allowing family members or a priest in the rooms to comfort dying ppl. My own doctor was condensending because I would not jab with expiremental Trump vax medicine.
So.. why would I care what the upper echelon of society thinks about me? Why would I want to fund their education? Why should I consider it a moral choice?
These very same ppl will be assholes and want to rule over minorities through collectivist guilds like the blue line brotherhood, medical tyranny (take meds or lose your fuckin job) or even preach in public school classrooms the gospel of anti Americanism and anti white-ism.
Or they'll be some shit lib or neo conservative warhawk asshole who destroys the USA.
You say I benefit from higher education even though I straight up fuckin don't lmmfao! Higher education didn't get me out of the ghetto and into a rual homestead. Working overtime in the working class did. Grueling 70 to 120 hour weeks in security did. Sometimes working two jobs did.
People can fund their own education. I personally don't benefit from having to pay for ppls education.
Yeah sure the infrastructure and everything bla blah. I still don't see why I should incorporate giving a benefit to a class of ppl who hate rual loyal to the tinfoil uneducated types like me anyway. They should pay their way through life. I had to.
So many bizzarre tangents. You're really not able to follow along because so many talkint points need to be crammed in there (trump jab, medical tyranny, class segregation). I see you got the full script ready to go. Anyway, here you are using: cell phones, the internet, satellites, modern vehicles, groceries and everything else modern society has to offer. Perhaps Somalia is more your cup of tea: You don't get to use any of the benefits we develop through education but then you can shut the fuck up about big bad government stealing your taxes.
Yet it all has no bearing. It's a weak attempt to shame someone for believing ppl need to pay their own debts. People have paid their own education and all that infrastructure was made. How does your entitled tangent make any sense? All that infrastructure will continue to exist without my tax dollars funding post education. Post education is made by private individuals with private institutions. It has nothing to do with me whatsoever.
We are talking past each other. I'm asking you, from one human being to another, to think beyond merely "people should pay their debts".
No one disagrees with that statement. I don't disagree with that statement.
The **REAL **question I'm asking: Is it fair to saddle future generations with these amounts of debt?
Most countries in the developed part of the world have decided that upper education provides a net benefit to society, so they strengthen it. Germany, UK, France, etc all agree that people that receive specialization and can conduct research provide a net benefit to everyone else in that society, even the ones that DON'T participate directly.
The US on the other hand seems to be tying higher education to remuneration. I strongly believe we still need teachers, nurses, historians, social workers -even though those jobs don't always pay well. I want America to have a cutting edge on research and development because I think it's a great nation, and I don't want higher education to be reserved exclusively for the wealthy, because it would limit our resource pool. I'd prefer if someone from a lower income didn't have to debate whether college was right for them because we could be missing out on the next breakthrough in cancer, space research or whatever you think doesn't impact you directly. I'm not saying EVERYONE should go to college, but we should not be putting up barriers either. Please, from one human to another: pause and consider the ramifications beyond "people should pay their debts".
You're right, some of these innovations could still happen without the support we could offer to upper education, but I believe we can do better. We don't have to limit ourselves. We're a great nation and I think everyone should have a fair shot at developing the next cancer breakthrough, or flying car or whatever.