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I think nuclear energy is a great idea in theory, but I have absolutely zero trust in companies handling nuclear waste responsibly. It's not like they have a great track record.
That being said, pretty excited about this if it's as safe as they say.
So nationalize them. Problem solved.
That's the dream!
Do you trust our current governmental structures to manage something with that much potential for harm when it goes wrong? I sure don't. Sure, it might go great for a long while, but then you get one far-right administration that wants to cut regulations.
How many nukes does the US have?
I trust them far more than greedy corporations run by greedy billionaires, absolutely. For many reasons, not the least of which is the elimination of the profit motive.
You're acting like we don't already have these. This isn't new and we have tons of prior experience to learn from.
I wish I could be as optimistic as you are.
Lol if only you knew how wrong that statement was.
You have every right to not trust companies, I don't either. Good thing we have multiple government regulators and multiple non-profit engineering/standards boards also involved.
Sure, I just want to feel confident that said regulations actually have teeth and the punishment can't just be factored into the cost of doing business.
So, yes, I'm scared. Maybe that's not rational, but I don't want to look back in 40 years and find out we were wrong about the longevity of nuclear waste storage, or that the many minor infractions over the years have slowly built up into a real problem. I don't want to discover that we've been outsourcing the most dangerous work to developing countries with less employee and environmental protections than our own. If there's a viable method that's inherently safer, I'd feel a little better about it.
Well as long as we are using feelings to determine policy. Instead of you know data
That's why there were no incidents in Japan a decade ago. Especially not after multiple reports of potential danger 🤷♂️.
I have the same reserves as the person you commented on. "We" may have great agencies working to prevent issues, but it's not the case everywhere in the world. And if you want to use fission as a solution for climate change, you need to have every developing country to use it too, whatever the stability of the region.
Just look at Ukraine where the safety of one their reactor is on the line because of the war, and the mines Russia put all over. Chernobyl 2.0 if things go wrong :(
Oh yes let's do this. Thousands of plants across the world operating for multiple decades and you mention something the exposed people to less radiation than you get on a 4 hour flight. Omg something isn't perfect! Wow we should give you an award.
Which is why there are international bodies.
Citation needed. Please show me multiple peer reviewed studies that back up this claim. There are 190 countries or so please show me how it physically impossible that if each and every single one of them doesn't have a nuclear reactor themselves climate change can't be worked on at all, not even slightly.
Yeah maybe Russia shouldn't have invaded.
No. Very different plant design, but you knew that. Just hoping that I didn't.
Yeah sure, the Fukushima region is/was thriving and people were happy to live next to a nuclear disaster. The cleanup will take another decade and lots of money. It's not just about the immediate radiation.
International bodies, like the ones that (afaik) can't access Iran's nuclear enrichment plants anymore ? Sure it may be more related to nuke production, and that's a tangential problem.
Stand off your high horse and your hyperboles. I didn't say that it was impossible to work on climate change without 190 going nuclear. However it's ignoring that most pollution comes from developing countries, countries that do not want to sacrifice their development, and would need nuclear or renewable. Guess what is cheaper and safer?
For Ukraine, yeah, but did you or I have a say in this war ? Do we have a say on Russia preventing 90% of workers that know the plant to go to work ? No such risk with renewables (except maybe hydro, as shown by Russia too).
Did I say that the plant would explode exactly like Chernobyl? No. The plant can be a disaster if one or multiple missiles hit it, with the mines and explosives reported as being set everywhere. Could the plant resist such impacts ? Probably, maybe. Do I care to find out ? No thanks.
Don't bother to respond if you are to take this discussion in bad faith. We can discuss things like adults without being hurt by the other side having a different opinion.
More gish gallop from the coal lobby.
I have worked on a Superfund site that is going to extend past 100 years, but your ten years is soooo impressive to me.
Yeah organized religion is shit not sure what you want from me. Maybe we can ban religion and ban your coal employers.
But you sure as hell brought it up.
Don't lie it is unbecoming of even a lobbyist.
Well it certainly didn't help that thanks to Big Fossil Fuels Russia has a natural gas stranglehold on Europe. Maybe if stopped listening to coal lobby people on the internet and built nuclear Russia would have backed off.
Again with the lies from Big Coal
Top kek.
From what I recall of Three Mile Island, I don't know that I'd put a lot of trust in the NRC.
I'm pretty sure Three Mile Island is more of a case study in how safety measures at nuclear plants can work.
Except it took a whistle blower to point out the reckless behavior during the clean-up to prevent a potential catastrophic event when the NRC was all for signing off on the reckless plan. That, plus the poor communication with the surrounding communities did not help the people there feel confident that their safety was being looked after
It's not been uncontested through out history, and I won't pretend that I follow the updates closely, but there have been studies suggesting increased cancer rates in the surrounding communities.
+50 years ago
Boy, you are just really bothered by this. Why does it being 50years ago matter. Can you explain why we should trust them more today than we should have then?
Just to clarify you want to know why five decades of doing good work means nothing? I just want to make sure I get the coal lobby's question correct.
Right, how have their incentives changed and would you trust them regardless of the administration in power? I'm open to them being more trustworthy, but I don't trust them easily.
And just for the record, I'm not against nuclear power. I think it's great and I would love to see more use of clean energy to move away from coal, so your pitchfork is not really necessary. Being skeptical of the organization charged with your safety is not the same thing as being against the technology they look over.
Right, and it is not on me to prove that they are doing a good job when I can point to five decades. If you want to stop lobbying for big coal go get a job with the NRC and do it yourself.
I mean no one died and it seems like most studies find few to no significant adverse long term health effects from the event.
There have been studies that suggested increased cancer rates around TMI. I don't pretend to follow TMI closely enough to know for sure, maybe those studies have been completely debunked. The trouble with cancer is there can be a number of different factors leading to it and isolating one incident as the main driver for cancer years down the line is difficult.
There was also the issue with the way the surrounding communities were being "kept informed" and the fact that a whistle blower and to come forward to halt irresponsible clean up plans that could have caused a catastrophic event.
Really obsessed about this 5 decade long ago event. Btw the cancers studies have been debunked
I bet on the day Three Mile Island had the meltdown, hundreds if not thousands of people died due to emissions from coal power.
The issues with fission are issues with practically. It’s expensive, pretty much. Concerns about meltdowns or waste storage are discussions that need to happen, but they pale in comparison to the damage we already experience every day.
Hopefully small modular reactors will get popular in remote areas or industrial uses, and that will bring down the price to make them a feasible compliment to renewable energy.
I don't disagree about the harm of coal and I am absolutely hoping fusion works out in the long run. All for clean energy!
I see. So because of an incident five decades ago out of hundreds of plants running since the 1950s that resulted in no deaths the entire NRC for all time forever is untrustworthy.
Hey everyone go shut civilization down. The bar has been raised. Did an organization make a mistake that had no victim 51 years ago? This means it is destroyed forever. Only perfect people who act perfectly forever and into the past as far as you can look get to do anything.
Got to love this new world. Where the only thing that is real is our outrage. Can you tell me anything about the NRC? Can you describe their emblem without looking it up? Can you tell me who is running it now? Can you tell me about its organization structure? How about the license renewal process? How about how inspections are even performed? Betting no. But you don't need to, you have outrage and that replaces data. It is the master play that can never be defeated. As long as you can be upset about something you don't need to know anything.
There are people who are grandparents who weren't alive during that incident.
With respect, you are the one that seems outraged. I'm not outraged, just pointing out that government can be just as untrustworthy as corporations and in the case of the NRC, there is some history to justify that.
Government agencies generally should be looked at with critical eyes, as should anyone claiming power over your life.
Also, you claimed there were no victims. The fact that no one died in the immediate aftermath of TMI does not mean there were no victims. The surrounding communities were victimized by poor business decisions and poor oversight.
Emphasis on "some".
Do you think pedantically going after one word I said will make your pro-coal agenda work?
I just thought it was worth recognizing that there were victims as my point in my original post was regarding the trustworthiness of those that are supposed to be looking out for the people. And I guess I'm not sure where I've pushed coal, but you do you, I guess.
Peace and love to you, Zombies
Well, that's why you put well funded, independent organizations in charge of setting and enforcing the rules around this kind of stuff
And you don't just give them the power to fine the companies exploiting the reactors, you give them the power to unilaterally decide to shut down the reactors if they deem it necessary
With a rigorous set of ethics and standards so the industry doesn't end up being overseen by a bunch of retired executives or getting kick-backs.
here's a video about how most nuclear waste is handled
We're currently trusting them to deal with all the filth that comes out of fossil fuel based power facilities. There's a lot of very long lived awful waste that is produced.
It's kind of a devil-you-know thing, isn't it?
Like, we've seen on a limited scale what can happen when nuclear isn't handled properly, and then we've also seen what kind of catastrophic messes the fossil fuel industry creates with our current fuel sources. It's not a big leap of imagination to scale up Fukushima and Chernobyl to a global reach comparable to coal and oil.
Our corporations have shown they will cut every corner available - even when heavily regulated - and our governments have shown they are too incompetent to properly enforce the regulations they do out on the books. It shouldn't be any surprise that people are reluctant to get behind nuclear. Anyone who isn't is hideously naive.