this post was submitted on 28 Jul 2023
491 points (99.8% liked)
Technology
58096 readers
4033 users here now
This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.
Our Rules
- Follow the lemmy.world rules.
- Only tech related content.
- Be excellent to each another!
- Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
- Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
- Politics threads may be removed.
- No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
- Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
- Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed
Approved Bots
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I would like to see some numbers.
When it came time to replace an old car a few years ago I actually discounted several EVs because on paper neither the range, nor the performance, nor the charging matched up to Tesla.
I discounted Tesla because I didn’t like the way a certain CEO went about their business and so couldn’t trust the company.
Looking at this, I should have just bought the EV I wanted back then and been done with it.
I've been very happy with my Hyundai Ioniq 5 after more than a year. The range adjusts dynamically based on conditions and my driving history, and charging is very fast when you are hooked up to a 350kw charger, especially in warm weather.
I just don't get how they did such a phenomenal job designing the exterior and the mechanical aspects and then just (IMO) made the interior kinda "meh". Maybe it's better in person but I haven't been thrilled with what I've seen in pictures.
The EV6 is very similar on paper, both use the 800V E-GMP, but I prefer the interior and driving experience over Ioniq 5.
I hate the touch bar. But I don't know if the Ioniq is any better in that regard.
Also the exterior of the Ioniq 5 looks better. EV6 interior looks better but some of those things would annoy me.
The screens in those two cars are the same, they also both have touch panels below the touch screens, but they take different approaches to the user experience.
The Ioniq 5 has a single touch panel, and many of the buttons are pretty much just shortcuts to get to the relevant screen on the touchscreen.
The Kia EV6 has more or less the same touch panel, but here it can switch between climate mode and media mode. So in one mode the dial and the touch buttons control temperature and fan speeds, on the other mode the same buttons and dial control the volume and switching channels and tracks on the radio.
I agree the interior looks extremely bland in pictures. I personally think it's much better in person.
I have one on order and compared to the Kia EV6, Volvo XC40, VW id.4. Getting in the drivers seat of all these cars feels almost like getting into a sleeping bag. The center consoles are tall, the bottom of the windows are tall, the dashboards are pulled up and almost over you like a blanket.
The Ioniq 5 feels very spacious around you in comparison. The center console is lower and more open, the center console is not connected to the dashboard, so you could easily hop between the drivers seat and the passengers seat. The doors are equally tall, but it seems like they are further out, probably due to the handle design. The roof feels higher, and especially in the glass one, much more spacious. The dashboard also feels a bit more clean, and a bit more like a computer on a desk in front of you, that a plane cockpit around you.
All the other cars certainly feel more sporty, like a racecar, and the Ioniq feels casual and comfy.
All of them are great to drive, but in the end, the comfort was the deciding factor for me. I'm still waiting on my Ioniq being delivered though.
Yeah, honestly if I was looking to get an electric car the Ioniq5 would probably be it anyway.
Many of my friends recently bought a Korean EV. They are all happy with their purchase. Nobody of them even considered Tesla. Since in my country Tesla has a bad rep when it comes to repairs.
After some quick reading, a big thing is that you want an EV with a cooled and heated battery if you live in areas that see snow. And if you live in a warm area you'll want a battery pack that is actively cooled, as overheating will also cause poor performance, and can become damaged if they get hot enough.
According to a South Korean fine Tesla was given, their cars can apparently drop in range by about 50% if the temperature is around -15C(5F), compared to 20C(68F). With many other EVs also dropping by up to 40% because of battery temperature.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/south-korea-fines-tesla-22-mln-exaggerating-driving-range-evs-2023-01-03/
Valid, this should be tackled. Does the battery heating help?
Battery heating makes an enormous difference. I live in Ontario and generally average about -15 to -20 during the winter. Bought a Hyundai Kona EV in 2020 and it's been great. Actual range in summer is about 450km cuz I drive like an old man, and it drops to about 350km with my high traction winter tires, battery heating, and cabin heating.
The Kona also won for the best actual range during winter a few years ago
https://yourtestdriver.com/electric-vehicle-winter-weather-test/
Every road test I’ve seen has shown Tesla cars being more efficient and getting more range than other manufacturers. But I do question the results. I have a BMW i3. I always get about 2/3 of the official range. Always been happy with that. But people complain about the range while having the temperature at max in winter (with t shirt on) and then AC set to freezing in the summer (wearing a jumper). They just drain the battery.
Never let perfect be the enemy of good
You shouldn't have bought an EV unless you plan to use it solely for driving around a city.
Just came back from a EU holiday with an EV. 3.000km without any issue whatsoever. The gas car that joined us was 1 hour faster in the end (on a 12 hour drive).
In the EU at least, a 300km range EV is stressfree and totally doable.
When you get lucky enough and you don’t have 3 people in front of you wanting to charge, sure. We go on 600-800 km trips which is quite exhausting and don't plan to spend additional hours at chargers
Not sure what your location is, but have not had 1 single time where I had to wait at a charger. 9 out of 10 times we are alone at a charging spot of on average 8 available spots.
Again, EV in EU is a non-issue. I often had to wait longer at gas stops in the past.
Sounds like a PHEV would solve this.
No, phev is literally the worst. You have to charge it and fill it with gasoline, as well. As a result, it’s heavier and more complex.
Hybrids are fine, though I still prefer regular gasoline.
I'd be much more likely to buy a hybrid or phev than pure electric. My ideal thing would be something like the Edison Truck (though just a regular pickup, not a semi) where it's diesel electric.
A full size pickup truck with like a 40-60hp diesel generator/range extender on board would be awesome. Or a midsize with like a 30hp.
How often do you take road trips? The vast majority of trips taken by car are within 20–30 km. An average EV range can easily cover most people’s daily driving needs.
Of course. If you have averagely 20-30 km trips and charge the vehicle overnight, EVs are good. However, when you travel more kilometers and need to charge more than 0 times on the way to your destination, you waste many hours.
Have you actually road tripped an EV? You don’t waste “many hours” you spend like 15 minutes every 200 miles charging while you piss and walk your dog.
I more than once have done 600+ miles in a day in the lowest-range Tesla available. It’s just fine.
yes, you spend ideally 15 minutes, realistically more. With a gasoline car, I spend around 5
In addition, my car is capable of around 600-660 km which is more than most EVs
Here's the duration of my last 5 fast charging stops, pulled from an app that logs everything my car does:
8 minutes 12 minutes 13 minutes 5 minutes 14 minutes
"realistically" i'm having sub-15 minute charge sessions almost every time. Not to mention this goes back a couple months, since I charge at home every night.
If you drive 600km without stopping to piss, maybe a gas car is for you, but I'm not that miserable.
That’s 52 minutes. With a gasoline car you can have a 5 minute stop.
I don’t drive for 600 km without a break but I also don't need to spend hours at petrol stations. I don't know where you live but in my country and for my use case, an electric car is only viable if I also have one gasoline car.
It would mean a huge compromise for my needs. Getting an electric car is similar to getting a Unimog if you spend your time mostly at highways.
Not sure if you are making stuff up for the sake of it. But how you describe EV is nothing like the real world. Believe it how you want, but I will keep repeating (as an actual experience) that EV is a non-issue in this day and age.
On longer trips (1.000km and more) it will take approx 10% more time. Which is a no brainer.
Well, for me the difference between 10 and 11 hours would mean quite a drastic change. You are free to use an electric car if you like it but unless they cannot be charged just fast as gasoline cars can be filled, I won't get one. Also, not every part of the world has enough tesla superchargers and not everyone can afford to get a car for the price of tesla. Most absurd is that tesla model X can cost literally more than Land Cruiser
Yeah ok, but now you are moving the goalposts on the fly. As long ad we are not making stuff up on invalid assumptions that’s fine. I’m not saying everybody needs to buy an EV. Just if people are using the argument that it is not user friendly to not get one, that’s false.
I can’t afford a ferrari either, doesn’t mean it’s a bad car.
Ps. As mentioned 6 times or so already, i am talking about the EU (said so from the start)
It's also five different trips? Where I stopped for less than 15 minutes each trip?
I don't know how to get you to understand that basically no one is spending hours at charging stations. I live in the midwestern US (a notably poor part of the country for EV infrastructure) and my only vehicle is an EV.
Yes, feel free to come to eastern europe where we have 3 reasonable chargers in the whole country 😀
You don’t spend 5. You spend at least 10 minutes, where charging takes 15-20.
If you have 110L tank, yes it takes 10 minutes. If you charge your car in 15-20 minutes, then good for you. In my area, there is one such a charger and unless you plan to charge your car at 3:00 AM, you will not find less than 5 cars in front of it.
Regular chargers we have here will take at least hour to charge your vehicle
Ok, but there are always exceptions. You can’t use those as an argument. There are also some regions where it takes hours to stand in line for gas. Doesn’t mean that is the average and that I should go around teling people it is.
EV charging in EU (!) is on average (!!) almost identical to gas cars currently especially the newer models with 300KWh charging capabilities. I think it will take you less time to charge those than gas even.
For how long have we been building gas stations compared to chargers?
Of course charging will become faster over time and maybe even overtake the gasoline cars. What will do this to batteries though? Despite development, super fast charging still kills the battery more than slow charging and the loss of performance would be felt during winter.
But yes, once electric cars have the same range and can be charged as fast as gasoline cars can be fille, the main drawback will be away. That does not mean I will buy one, maybe just for a city and if I have enough money not to care that much about 20k.
Respect your personal choice. As long as it’s not discussed as “EV is only good for city trips”. I understand your personal situation and preference, but the facts are that that is an outdated view for many situations.
I mean today it’s still only for city purposes 🤷 Maybe in the future when the situation improves, it will be usable on sth else, as well.
Still I don't understand why the resources aren't rather put to development of synthetic fuels.
I’ll just bluntly keep repeating myself just like you are repeating yourself (even after being presented with experiences talking about the opposite) -> EV is not for city purposes only.
I will end it here as I refuse to repeating the same relevant points over and over again.
EVs, at least where I live, cannot be taken for longer trips.
Me (and others) are trying to explain to you that your personal “experience” is not grounds to make statements like you are making (e.g. EVs are only for small trips). The fact that you choose to ignore all that and focus only on your own (limited) experience is not my fault.
Limiting it to “in my area” it would be absolutely fine and right, but you are incorrectly telling people like it is not ready for prime time yet everywhere, when it clearly is.
So if you let that go, there would be no need to keep repeating yourself ;) but you keep opening a can of worms if each reply contains a blanket statement.
I’ll let it go, sorry for hammering on about it.
Guys, it’s fine that you like them, feel free to use them.
On the other hand, you cannot argue against the facts that these cars explode from time to time, the infrastructure for them is nowhere near as good as for regular cars and that charging and range are worse. So no, they are far from ready.
To me it seems like electric cars are meant to be a replacement for gasoline cars, yet they are worse almost at everything (today). They are basically a solution to a non-existent problem.
Some argue they are more ecological, yet this is debatable. I don't know but explosions don't seem too ecological to me and the fact you can throw out a huge battery cell approximately every 8 years does not seem ecological either. Especially when we add the cost of the battery replacement, it does not make sense to replace it. Economically, it’s a better decision to just buy a new car, which again creates additional waste... EDIT: If you need to push an alternative fuel through, I see more potential in hydrogen. The infrastructure is even worse though :/
Omg dude, this is just getting silly. Good luck m8.