this post was submitted on 29 Feb 2024
388 points (92.2% liked)
World News
32349 readers
799 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Excuse me, the US is still the king of genocide.
Brits and Spaniards didn't kill like 50 million people for you to give the crown to an upstart
That genocide isn't the only genocide the US has been part of, either as a direct genocidier or indirectly by supporting the genocidal regime.
No one is gonna take this crown from the US!
They try to not be open about it though, at least to its own population, unlike "israel".
It's basically a US colony in Palestine though so ig it's a moot point.
No, not really. There's a lot of whitewashing of US history, especially in textbooks. If you ask the average American they wouldn't even call anything the US did "genocide."
I recommend reading Lies My Teacher Told Me.
That's what I mean. The US is built on genocide and colonization just like "israel", but they try to not be open about it.
Oh no that's new. Back when the genocide was in a more active phase and there were "Indian Wars" they were very explicit about it.
But today, you're right, they just teach a few key atrocities and handwave the other hundred million. I must have misread lol
I think that's just the different stages of settler-colonial development.
Go back far enough and everyone is where they are because their ancestors killed whomever was there first. Not that it justifies anything, but it's genocides all the way down. Even native Americans wiped out a prior civilization if you go back far enough.
Gonna throw a hat in the ring here for the British Empire as the king of genocide.
Iirc ghenkis khan has everyone else beat.
Depends on the estimates you use.
No it doesn't. It's not even close. In terms of the worst genocides in history by death toll, the U.S. doesn't even make the top 10 list. Same with a more general list of anthropogenic disasters by death toll.
Leave that hurr durr US is big bad amirite shit on reddit.
Do you... Think that list is authoritative?
The population of Indigenous Americans is estimated to have decreased from approximately 145 million to around 10 million.
135 million.
Not all of that was the US, the old empires of France and Spain and England played a huge role, but since it's founding the US has killed millions along with Canada and Mexico. Disease played a large role, but much of that was deliberately spread which muddies the estimates.
And that's just one of the genocides the US was involved in. There have been many others.
Do you... want to provide more authoritative sources? Or even just start with one? So far you've cited zero.
Remember, your original assertion was "the US is still the king of genocide." Assuming your vague phrase of "king of genocide" means total number of people killed, then show an authoritative source that proves it, then we can talk.
My attention was originally brought to this by the book Lies My Teacher Told Me - I listened to an audiobook so sadly I can't really search it for the relevant passage without investing a bunch of time. Instead, here's the relevant Wikipedia article which covers it. "The population of Indigenous Americans is estimated to have decreased from approximately 145 million to around 7-15 million between the late 15th and late 17th centuries, representing a decline of around 90-95%."
Where is your list, or sources? Or should we just believe queermunist who I’m guessing is more sympathetic to communist nations?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_Indigenous_peoples
No context? Your source that you posted even had Spain as killing millions of native Americans. For the USA itself - the trail of tears was 4,000-10,000. Most deaths were through disease.
So how again is the USA the most genocidal country on this planet? More than the holocaust? More than the Armenian genocide? The Killing Fields (Khmer rouge), Rwanda where 800,000 were killed in 100 days?
You are talking out of your ass, queermunist.
The Trail of Tears was one event among many others. The American Indian wars and Manifest Destiny saw the Native population decline from 600,000 to 250,000.
But the US doesn't get to pretend it doesn't inherit the genocide it was founded on! Killings that happened before 1776 were carried out by prominent colonial generals like George Washington before the Founding, and their forefathers like John Washington who the Iroquois named "devourer of villages".
Let's not forget the intentional hunting of buffalo to extinction in the wild by the US army, intended to starve the plains Natives to death or force them to flee. The US also had boarding schools like Canada, where they'd kidnap native children and brainwash them to be good little Christians that can't even speak their native languages.
The fact that you think the genocide was limited to a single event like the Trail of Tears is disturbing.
The international court doesn’t recognize displacement as genocide.
For fun though, we can use your numbers that have no sources. We will use the displacement numbers as well as all the European numbers that you believe the USA should inherit.
It doesn’t even make the top 10 as far as genocide goes.
If you actually bothered to read the Wikipedia link it would lead you to this article, "Russell Thornton estimated that by 1800, some 600,000 Native Americans lived in the regions that would become the modern United States and declined to an estimated 250,000 by 1890 before rebounding"
350,000 dead from that short period, but that came after the mass colonial genocide in the Americas, where the population of "Indigenous Americans is estimated to have decreased from approximately 145 million to around 7-15 million between the late 15th and late 17th centuries." Assume 90% of that is from disease, that's 13 million killed.
I'll continue quoting from Wikipedia.
Guenter Lewy in 1978 estimated 1,353,000 total deaths in North and South Vietnam during the period 1965–1974 in which the U.S. was most engaged in the war.
About 3 million people died in the Korean War, most of them civilians, making it perhaps the deadliest conflict of the Cold War era
A September 14, 2007, estimate by Opinion Research Business (ORB), an independent British polling agency, suggested that the total Iraqi violent death toll due to the Iraq War since the U.S.-led invasion was in excess of 1.2 million (1,220,580).
Geoffrey B. Robinson, professor of history at UCLA, posits that, based on documentary evidence, powerful foreign states, in particular the United States, the United Kingdom and their allies, were instrumental in facilitating and encouraging the Indonesian Army's campaign of mass killing, and without such support, the killings would not have happened [...] Robert Cribb suggests the most accurate figure is 500,000, though he notes it is incredibly difficult to determine the precise number of people killed. However, Jan Walendouw, one of Suharto's confidants, cited a number of 1.2 million victims. Vincent Bevins estimates the numbers killed at up to a million or perhaps more.
Declassified CIA documents report that the U.S. Government organized, funded, and equipped the 1954 coup d'état, deposing the elected Guatemalan presidential government of Jacobo Árbenz Guzmán [...] By the end of the war, it is estimated that 140,000–200,000 people had been killed or had disappeared.
Due to its clandestine nature, the precise number of deaths directly attributable to Operation Condor is highly disputed. Some estimates are that at least 60,000 deaths can be attributed to Condor, with up to 30,000 of these in Argentina.
And now this newest genocide in Gaza.
And on and on it goes. Death to America.
That's a wrap, friend. I called you out on this right at the beginning. There's no point in further discussion.
It's the internet, there was never a point. 🙄
The bombs and bullets are from the US. The aircraft carrier in the Gulf protecting Israel is from the US. The attacks on the Houthis are from the US.
When the US directly and indirectly, militarily and financially and even diplomatically in the UN supports a genocide it is responsible.
You aren't willing to credit the US for the genocide being done by the 51st State. 🤡
You still have no idea what genocide is. It’s common for people who don’t know what they’re talking to derail. I’ll oblige.
Israel makes their own weapons and imports from Canada, USA, Italy, Germany, and the UK. Shall we count those countries as committing genocide as well then?
The carrier in the gulf is to prevent a country like Iran from intervening (which would also be more lives lost)
Let me know when you can figure out what genocide is.
Article 2 of the Genocide Convention:
How the fuck is this not genocide? This war is part of a broader goal to eradicate the Palestinian national/ethnic group in whole or in part. They are killing, causing serious harm, inflicting conditions calculated to destroy, and preventing births within the group. It's genocide. It's so obviously genocide and that's why the ICJ found in South Africa's favor. They bombed people trying to get flour! It's a god damn genocide.
I think you misspelled China. Reddit being completely filled with imperial core propaganda is one of the main reasons a lot of us came to Lemmy.
Hot take, but I think we got a dethronement.
Please, do tell, how is the USA the most genocidal country on this earth?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_genocide_in_the_United_States
That’s what you have? Try again.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_genocide
No the first try was enough, I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt in case you were a child or just got a computer.
Benefit of the doubt in what regard? The claim was that USA was the most genocidal country.
I appreciate you giving a child like me the benefit of the doubt. Are you smarter than a 5th grader?