this post was submitted on 11 Apr 2024
128 points (95.7% liked)

politics

19135 readers
2534 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 22 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

the only place that i know of that lets non-citizens vote in NYC, and only for local elections.

their reasoning is that, if you live in NYC, you're paying taxes and, therefore, have the right to representation. you still have to register and show ID, using the city's NYC ID, which is issued for free (gasp!). (more info on NYC ID)

edit: my bad-- this law was ruled unconstitutional on appeal, after a long court battle, on 2/24/2024. boo

[–] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It is important to note that the law was determined to be unconstitutional to the NY State Constitution. This hasn't been tested if a state allowed non-citizens to vote.

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 2 points 7 months ago

That IS important!

[–] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world -5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Eh, I get it in theory but voting should be an incentive to naturalization.

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

It still is. It was only limited to local elections.

Besides, taxation without representation is unjust and was one of the bases for the American Revolution itself. Hard to argue against it.

“We should make things hard and unjust so immigrants are pressured to become citizens,” is a pretty terrible argument, not to mention needlessly cruel.

[–] BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Besides, taxation without representation is unjust and was one of the bases for the American Revolution itself. Hard to argue against it.

In general I agree but if I fly into another country and buy something (paying sales tax) I don't expect to be able to immediately vote in their elections. Waiting a few years to be able to vote (when the rest of us have to wait 18 years) seems reasonable. Not to mention foreign adversaries would jump at the chance to ship in thousands of loyalists and have a real influence on an election.

“We should make things hard and unjust so immigrants are pressured to become citizens,” is a pretty terrible argument, not to mention needlessly cruel.

Hard? If having a vote suddenly makes things easy I've been doing voting wrong my whole life. And the naturalization process is cruel, but let's fix that. If you're productive and have a clean record you shouldn't have to wait more than a year.

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 0 points 7 months ago

In general I agree but if I fly into another country and buy something (paying sales tax) I don't expect to be able to immediately vote in their elections. Waiting a few years to be able to vote (when the rest of us have to wait 18 years) seems reasonable.

Most of the immigrants in question have been in NYC for years if not most of their lives, far exceeding your own, personal requirements. But NYC set the limit to 6 months, the same limit set for everyone to be considered an NYC resident. All they had to do was be able to prove NYC residency (not a low bar, btw), which proves that they pay taxes.

Hard? If having a vote suddenly makes things easy I've been doing voting wrong my whole life. And the naturalization process is cruel, but let's fix that. If you're productive and have a clean record you shouldn't have to wait more than a year.

First of all, if you want to fix the cruel naturalization process, then stop throwing up needless roadblocks to acting in a democracy like citizenship requirements. If one can prove residency and that one is a taxpayer (thus, as is just, deserving of representation, depending on the level of taxation: municipal, state, federal, etc.), then one should get a vote in how said tax collected is dispersed and relevant administrative decisions made, representatives chosen, etc. This was the crux of the NYC decision to let local immigrants vote in local elections.

Second, NO, it shouldn’t take more than a year to process someone’s application of naturalization— in fact, it shouldn’t take more than a month or two. But it takes, even with the best attorney and all expedited “fees”, well over FIVE YEARS. If you’re lucky. If you’re not lucky, it’s never.

I’ve been through this process with friends and loved ones, for better and for worse, over the past 16 or so years. You, clearly, have not. Or you’re discussing this in bad faith— I hope it’s the former, but, buddy, you’re just wrong when you present this as some simple thing that’s “not so bad.” There’s a reason it’s one of the most cantankerous issues of the last 3-4 generations.

The Alt-Right Playbook - Didoing