Ask Lemmy
A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions
Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world
Rules: (interactive)
1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Partnered Communities:
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
view the rest of the comments
If anyone needs help moving to the EU (and in particular Finland) let me know. I moved to Finland after 2016 (I saw the writing on the wall for awhile, before Trump - it's just that's when I finally had the best opportunity and Trump accelerated the need to move).
It takes less money to move than you might think to move. If you have a specialty (especially in STEM) it's really easy, and most jobs will even provide language classes for free.
If you don't, it's still possible, but it'll be much harder work I'll admit. You may end up as a janitor or laborer, but know this - you'll still be able to live comfortably. Wages can be much fairer here, public transportation is excellent to the point where you don't need a car at all, and you won't be bankrupted by healthcare. Even a low skilled SINGLE job will afford you financial security - something I remember was not the case in the USA.
And on the bright side, if you want to go to higher education here, university is a lot cheaper or, if you live long enough in a place to become a permanent resident or citizen, free.
If you get yourself at least 8k and 3 months of intensive Duolingo and maybe Mondly, you have a chance to move.
Finland is one of three countries that banned my wife and stepdaughter's race by using a procedural "gotcha." Despite being a part of the Apostille convention in Geneva, Finland, Germany and Greece refuse to accept any documentation from Philippines. Therefore, they are banned from your country entirely.
Thanks for the offer though.
Reminder to all here: USA is not the only country on the planet with racism.
Could you go into more details? I have friends from the Philippines (like, directly from there, never were US citizens) and they still even visit family every year.
I'm not denying there's racism here - there is, especially against Muslims (possibly more their religion and culture than the race itself, since it's viewed very misogynistic and against Finnish values) and Somalians (this one is just racism based off ignorance). Recently against Russians too for, well, obvious reasons.
But none of my Philippine friends have experienced racism, especially the ones with Hispanic names (there's Hispanic favoritism here).
Of course, racism isn't why I recommend moving out of the USA to anywhere in the EU - it's the civil unrest, unjust work practices, broken healthcare, rolling back of women's and LGBTQ rights, corruption in government, etc.
Are you sure it wasn't missing paperwork or errors? I'm assuming your wife doesn't have a US passport for example since you said all paperwork was from the Philippines, and my high school friend's grandmother mentioned Philippine record keeping, much like Salvadorian one, leaves much to be desired. Especially after Duterte's reign making things worse and not complying with other global governments, if this was 2016-2022.
I don’t have direct knowledge on whether or not Duterte made all of this worse, but I suspect you’re correct. Philippines is worlds behind on records, which is why I understand the purpose of the Apostille certification agreement.
According to USA friends he fucked with records of ex-pats and it was a nightmare for a bit when their family members were getting citizenship. That's why I also brought him up.
Oof. Considering his ex-presidential behavior in addition to his behavior while in office, this seems like something he would do.
Please see my long comment in thread above.
uh... you know the Philippines is the most Catholic country on earth, right? They make the Vatican look chill.
I mean, they're the only country on earth without divorce because they're that Catholic.
Yeah I'm not talking about Phillipines in my reply, I highly doubt they would face any racism in Finland
That said I don't think I've ever seen a Filipino in Finland ha
Is that race related? Sounds like an issue with paperwork from the Phillipines. Would they have been considered had they been a different ethnicity?
It didn’t seem that way, but the behavior of the Grecian consulate officer said otherwise.
We had been planning a trip to Italy and Greece for two years. We’ve been paying on the trip monthly. My wife and stepdaughter are Filipino citizens, here in the USA as permanent residents. They have applied for citizenship. Since they still have Filipino passports, they must apply for Schengen visas.
We we through the process of applying. We live in north Alabama. We were initially told we would have to fly to Tampa, FL to apply in person for the visa. I contacted the consulate and asked if we could instead apply in Atlanta since it was closer and I was having to check our daughter out of school to attend the visa appointment. They said that was fine.
We made plans and checked out of work and school to drive to Atlanta. We arrived on time and had most (if not all) of the paperwork that we were aware that needed to be completed. I could tell right away from the sneer of the attendant that there was going to be a problem. When she saw my wife and stepdaughter her attitude changed almost immediately. She took our paperwork, then made us sit in the waiting room about 45 minutes. Finally, she came back out with a guy dressed in suit. He asked me to come back to speak with him. I’m not the one applying for the visa.
I came back to the office and he explained that in 2019 there was a convention in Geneva that most countries signed onto - it was called the Apostille convention. It was intended to resolve the issue of countries certifying documents like birth and marriage certificates for use abroad. I understood the issue, since other countries do not really know who the certifying authorities are. I told him I would gather the information. They also wanted a certified letter stating that I would sponsor and support my wife and stepdaughter abroad during the trip. I’m like… uhh, ok dude, this is my wife and yes we share finances but ok.
So he asked me to return to the waiting area while they looked into other things and I gathered the income information they wanted (this information was above and beyond what was stated on the website, so I had to pull my W-2 records to satisfy their requirements).
After some time, the suit came back out and asked me to come back to the office again. This time, my wife and daughter also got up. He let me into the office, then put his hand up in my wife’s face and said, “Not you” and shut the door in her face.
Now I know something’s really wrong.
The man holds up my marriage certificate (we got married in Philippines) and my stepdaughter’s birth certificate and said, “These are garbage. They shouldn’t have even let them in the USA.”
I asked him very calmly to explain and he again brought up the Apostille convention. He said that we must supply the required Apostille certification for the documents and “they shouldn’t have let them in the country without it.” I said ok, well, while I was waiting I researched this and found that I can get an electronic Apostille certification from Philippines and get this resolved.
The man rolled his eyes and gathered the paperwork up and slammed the folder shut. The lady said, “we’ll take your money and keep their passports and run the application after you get the required information emailed back to us. Have a nice day.” They took our $180 and kept the passports and ushered us out.
I got home that night and then went to the Philippines website to process the Apostille certification for our documents and started the process. That’s where I noticed on the Philippines website that despite all of these countries being privy to the Apostille convention, Finland, Germany and Greece have “elected” to not accept any documentation from Philippines even if it’s certified electronically. The only way to have them certify an Apostille document is to fly all the way to Manila, have an appointment with their consulates in Manila, and ask them nicely to certify the documents and Apostille seal.
Since that wasn’t happening, we had to cancel our trip.
Instead, I’m writing this comment from a first class seat to Hawaii. Our flight credits were enough to pay for a first class round trip to Honolulu for our family of 5.
Normally I would say it was just a paperwork snafu, but the treatment of my wife and daughter at the Greek consulate suggests otherwise.
Fuck Greece (and Finland and Germany too). Respectfully.
Wait, I'm confused. You went to a Greek consulate that wasn't assigned to your location, and never interacted with Finnish or German ones but lumped them in? And why didn't you apply for the Schengen visa using your wife's US paperwork? She's a permanent resident of the USA after all, and should have a social security number no?
But also, none of that has to do with the approval process of moving to a EU country
You cannot apply based on US permanent residence. You must use the process based on citizenship at the time of desired entry.
Finland and Germany are lumped into this because they also refuse to accept Filipino paperwork, according to the Apostille site. This is despite their agreement to the convention, of which Philippines is a part.
Schengen visa rules dictate that you must apply at either the country you enter first or the country you are planning to spend the most time in. In our case, Greece was the answer to both of those questions. Had we applied to Italy, they would have refused to process the Schengen visa and told us to apply at Greece, who refuses to accept the papers.
We asked the Tampa consulate if it was possible to apply in Atlanta instead, and they agreed to this request. We did not show up to the Atlanta consulate blind or without their permission.
The reason I brought this into the discussion is because an EU country is very difficult for us to move into until my wife and daughter become US citizens. I expounded on the experience because I was asked.
From my understanding what you said and texting my friends, sounds like a paperwork issue. They never had trouble, but yeah, they lived in the Philippines. The issue in your case is that she doesn't live in the Philippines, so yes, she has to go there for the process because that's the only country she's a citizen of currently, although it would probably be possible to also do through a Phillipine embassy.
So they do accept Phillipine paperwork, but only official documents from the country itself.
Did you not have any official paperwork from there first notorized by the US? That's what's usually done in cases like yours, like my Highschool's friend's grandmother had to do when she got her US citizenship as well (so it's something you might want to look into anyway just in case).
That's probably your confusion on them "refusing" to accept the paperwork (although of course it also sounds like you had to deal with a racist cunt).
That said, it's weird for you to judge entire countries as super racist when you live in Alabama based off a few racists. I mean, even my black friends from when I lived in Texas didn't like stopping in Alabama. Just, something to consider for the future. I know racism can be extremely infuriating having experienced it both myself and seeing it done to my family, but you always have to remember that the asshole doesn't make the nation. Otherwise you end up also becoming what you hate.
We had original marriage certificates from Philippines with the PSA seal. We also had original birth certificates from PSA for my daughter. The USA accepted them without question for our visa and green card processing.
These are the documents that the consular officer held up to my face and said “these are garbage.”
We were not aware of the Apostille certification process and the USA, despite being a member of the convention, did not require this extra certification for our documents.
Greece would only accept them after they have been presented in person at their Manila consulate with the Apostille certification.
I did not feel it was a racism issue until the consular officers’ behavior made it feel evident there was more to it than a paperwork snafu.
I agree that I portrayed Finland and Germany as racist in an unfair fashion, that was unintended. The racism was evident only at this Greek consulate.
The information I received about Finland, Germany and Greece not accepting Philippines documentation was found here: https://dfa-oca.ph/quick-facts-on-apostille/
Upon opening this page I see that now Austria is now also not accepting these documents.
Yeah, I'm pretty certain that racist asshole used bureaucracy to be an asshole.
But you should get them notarized in the USA when you can in the future just in case. Harder for smaller countries to not accept diverging when a country line the USA already legally okays it.
We decided not to stress, finish the citizenship later this year, and enjoy some time in Hawaii.
Hawaii is nicer than Greece. My brother lives in Waikiki. If they exterminate the mosquitoes then it truly would be pretty close to a mythical tropical paradise.
Actually you'll notice that the counties with the best quality of life are incredibly xenophobic
Unfortunately I picked the wrong specialty (architecture). Still trying to get licensed by the end of the year, that's the only chance I have at another country maybe recognizing my degree. Regardless, it's not very in-demand.
It is in the Nordics and some western Europe countries if you get some kind of green certification, as eco friendly and energy efficient architecture is in high demand to meet climate goals but there's a lack of architects specializing in that. Though from the news here it seems there's a lack of architects in general as it was seen by many as not the most profitable field for so many years, so ironically you kinda lucked out lol