this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2024
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Palestine
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A community for everything related to Palestine and the occupation currently underway by the occupying force known as Israel.
Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. Existence is resistance for Palestinians.
Please refer to Israel as Occupied Palestine, or occupied territories. The IDF is a fascist and ethnonationalist occupying force. Israelis are settlers. We understand however that the imperial narrative (which tries to legitimise Israel) is internalised in the imperial core and slip-ups are naturally expected.
We always take the sides of Palestine and Palestinians and are unapologetic about it. Israel is an occupying power whose "defence force"'s (note the contradiction) sole purpose for existing is to push Palestinians out so they can resettle their rightful land. If you have anything positive to say about Israel we do not care.
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democrats are giving israel weapons to do genocide now
pointing to how shitty republicans will be doesn't excuse anything you disgusting coward
My point is that it actually could be worse. And congressional Republicans are providing weapons funding right now as well. It is not Democrats alone doing this.
It's a US problem, not specifically with Democrats. But the meme was meant to disenfranchise voters trying to equate the two parties. On some issues, Israel/Gaza, I'd tend to say that they are both horribly on the wrong side of history. But on other issues Democrats are on the correct side. Only when we get ranked choice voting will we have the ability to have a different voice of reason.
Rank choice voting is already in place in some local elections. It needs to spread further for it to be effective, but it's going to be the only way to make real change happen. Your last comment is what gets people into very stupid situations and takes the lives of innocents that you claim to protect.
There's a phrase that all elections are local. So yes, local elections matter. Republicans recently focused a lot of effort on this and that's why we have a ton of state laws restricting abortion access. Both federal and state matter. Thanks for the comment Trumper.
you can’t “disenfranchise” voters with a fucking meme holy shit. words have meaning. i know you’ve got a brain in your head somewhere, try using it some time
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220928-the-surprising-power-of-internet-memes
This article doesn’t contradict what I said so I don’t really understand why you linked it? I didn’t say memes have no social impact. I said that voters cannot be disenfranchised by a meme.
Anyways, I don’t really care to keep arguing about this tangent with you, so feel free to reply with whatever inane drivel first comes to mind so you can go back to defending the people committing genocide.
"It is not democrats alone doing this"
No one said or implied this you pathetic whelp. We are well aware of the history behind it and are criticizing who's spearheading it now; as we will when Trump does it as well because voting works oh, so well.
This is why we don't bother with liberals. So many of you are terminally complacent with genocide. If you'd bother to actually motivate yourself to learn about Israel and the history of this genocidal settler nation you'd be fucking angry too with this liberal nonsense.
That's exactly that the meme is implying. The whole point is that the meme wants to disenfranchise voters. There's only ever going to be two parties where voters can choose the lesser of two bad options until we get ranked voting. So vote for the less bad person and get ranked voting enacted. Then we can have a better democracy. Fuck no, I'm not complacent in genocide. Why would you assume that? Not another dollar should go to Israel. But that's not the only issue to vote on. Personally I align more with the Greens, thanks for asking.
Because those are the ones currently in power, dipshit. Holy fuck are you purposefully acting obtuse?
Not a single one of us denies that Republicans do it as well nor deny that they will do it worse. Every political party serves the bourgeoise ruling class and their current orders are to fund genocide. Greens or third party, despite me voting for third party as well, aren't getting places besides for local elections because of the way PACs and political organization works. Plus, the electoral college and electors.
We will never get a better democracy because that democracy doesn't serve the working class. The proletariat, if you will. All power comes from labor, all wealth is created by labor. They must be the ones to seize the mode of production.
Supreme Court is conservative. Stacked by Trump. President is Biden, so 1 point for the left. Congress is split. No one party has that much power right now. Which is my point.
Do you really think Biden counts as "the left"?
I think the PRC has a far more functional democracy, perhaps the US should take notes? If not, you might want to consider why you think that...
What left? We fucking hate Biden. We're communists.
Fuck them.
Also you still didn't acknowledge one thing.
All power comes from labor, motherfucker.
you genuinely make me fucking sick. if this conversation were taking place in person i'd spit in your face at a minimum
I second that. Spitting would be the minimum.
Why, because I'm challenging your thinking? There's not a good option for the US presidency, but there is a lesser of two evils. The whole point of the meme is not to show that the US government is complicit, but to specifically blame the Democrats. 'Hey people who would have voted for Biden. He's just like Trump. Don't vote.' If the meme had had a US flag then it'd have been more accurate.
you haven't challenged anything but my tolerance for genocide-loving scum. i sincerely hope you one day live through the horror you so casually support inflicting on others.
die screaming.
e: honestly cannot wish enough bad things for you. "lesser evil?" it would be laughable if it weren't nauseating. to what degree is your evil lesser when it results in a fucking genocide? the place for people like you is a pit.
I don't support any of the US funding for Israel. My whole point is that if Trump was president that it would be worse than it is now. Biden should absolutely fucking stop. Again, the point of the meme was to divide the left so that it makes it easier for Trump to be president.
If the purported "left" you associate yourself with decides to back Genocide Joe to avoid Genocide Trump- I hope you get the candidate you deserve (Trump).
You can't divide something that was never part of the "left" to begin with. Biden and the Democrats are not left, they have never been left. Those who support genocide and one half of the neoliberal duopoly are not left. Hope you enjoy Trump!
Huh?
leftists are not liberals. i don't feel like getting too deep into the weeds here but the difference functionally boils down to leftists opposing capitalism, whereas liberals are its most ardent defenders
Sounds like your last few brain cells finally fizzled out.
Literally all libs keep saying this but never explain how lmao. The entire point is that the Amerikan political system gave us choices none of the people asked for, so the system needs to be upended.
oh but you do, and that's my whole point. in an electoral frame of mind, your only power is your vote. you are - in a very real, material sense, from this perspective - supporting genocide when you vote for biden. your feelings about the matter are totally irrelevant to the outcome that your actions have. a vote for genocide is a vote for genocide. you are a direct part of a coalition giving biden the power to continue massacring innocent people. no matter what you've convinced yourself your vote means to you, what it means to biden is he has a blank check to stack palestinian bodies.
This is the best argument that anyone here has made. So in November I have the choice of Trump, who I believe will make the Palestinian situation worse, Biden who I believe is slightly better but as the lesser of two evils, a third party which is throwing out the vote without ranked choice voting, or not voting. Three of those options help Trump.
There were many good arguments. Youre just ok with genocide and/or weren't smart enough to understand them 👍
That's not an answer to my question. And typical of the other responses.
frankly, your comment is a great summation of why electoralism is a dead end for change, but i'll play ball a little longer regardless.
I understand the instinctive gut belief that this is true, but materially, what can he provide to Israel that Biden has not? It goes without saying that the empire isn't abandoning its vassal regardless of which figurehead is in charge, of course, but the only thing stopping Biden from sending more weapons is that it simply doesn't have the productive capabilities to further arm Israel (or the Ukraine, for that matter) at present. In a very real sense, Trump doesn't have much room with which to get worse, even if he wanted to. The end result of Biden's support for Israel is the death of every last Palestinian. Trump will continue that work, true. You are going to watch this genocide happen in your lifetime, one way or another. You can either support it or oppose it. You have rightly identified that there is no real way to vote against it (aside from support of a third party, which we'll get to).
But why? Based on what evidence? He has been a staunch Zionist since the 80s, long before Trump could even find Palestine on a map. He has been a part of ratcheting up every war effort the U.S. has engaged in since he got into office. If your perception of him is that he is an old fighter who's battling it out with the Republicans to eek out wins for the climate and labor unions then, well, I would just spend less time on Twitter, frankly. That level of brainworms is beyond the scope of this comment. If your perception of him is "Joe Biden, chill old grandpa VP to the first black president!" then you should know he was besties with (to the point of eulogizing him!) Strom Thurmond, a man so racist he would make Hitler's lederhosen tighten with unfettered Nazi joy. This was, in fact, his appeal: Biden was specifically picked to win back the racists in the Dem base who had no interest in supporting a black man for president.
To me, you read like someone who still believes the Democrats have something meaningfully different to offer than the Republicans. In reality, these people are all friends. Their kids go to (fancy, private) school together. They get brunch at restaurants so expensive you and I would have our knees broken for standing too close to the entrance. Many of them are even funded by the very same people and corporations. It's disheartening, but there really is no major political party that cares one iota about human life.
And they'll never let you have ranked choice voting, as I'm sure you've realized. The elite are not going to do anything to upset their grasp on power.
Look, at the end of the day if you've been paying attention then you know Biden is fucking cooked. His brain is pudding and his opponent got the coolest photo op a U.S. ghoul has had in decades. You can support him (and tacitly, his genocide) despite his dismal chances or you can vote for someone who opposes it. The likelihood either will elected is nil. The result is almost certainly going to be the same: Trump is going to be President, again.
I say this as a trans woman. I am not going to be having a good time. But even in the worst case scenario, where they're sticking me on Cybertruck to the Quiznos™ death camps, I could not imagine being able to live with myself knowing I tried to throw an entire peoples under the bus to stave off my execution.
You do what your conscience can bear.
Virtually any situation ever could be worse. That doesn't mean it makes sense to support something horrific just cause it's possible it could be worse if you don't. That kind of mindset will have you throwing your full support behind literal genocide, instead of putting your foot down.
And quite frankly, if you are incapable of putting your foot down for something like genocide, that implies you don't view it as a problem in the first place and are only concern trolling when it comes to harm reduction.