this post was submitted on 03 May 2024
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traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns

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The sex/gender distinction of the 20th century and now deeply popular among LGBT+ circles in the 21st century was one step forwards, two steps backwards. Although it provides a simple "explanation" of trans people, it ultimately cements sex and thus patriarchy as the natural state of things. Human sex has always been a social concept with biological justifications applied retroactively and selectively. The proletarianization of women and advances in medical science lay bare the absurdity of sex and for the first time in human history create the conditions for the world-historical abolition of sex and male supremacy. As the proletarian revolution self-abolishes the proletariat, so too does the transsexual-feminist social revolution self-abolish the woman and transsexual. Down with cisgenderism!

yes-hahaha-yes-l

sicko-hippie

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[–] Angel@hexbear.net 27 points 9 months ago

Thank you for this post times a billion!

Funnily enough, around four nights ago, I was ranting about this to my friend who is a trans woman, and we both agree that this "Man/woman' are for describing gender, but 'male/female' are for describing sex, so trans women are women, but they're not female!" is performative shit that harshly showcases the energy of liberals trying to advocate for trans people but failing miserably in the process.

"Biologically male" and "biologically female" are also just transphobic euphemisms. There is no 'set' definition, even among biologists and geneticists, of what constitutes a "biological male/female." Multiple factors are considered to be aspects of sex, and that includes things that trans people can, and often do in fact, change, such as hormones, genitals, and secondary sex characteristics.

It's the strangest semantic hill for these people to die on, and I saw a trans man doing it that same four nights ago in an Instagram comment section, arguing so hard that he’s “biologically female but still a man,” even when people tried to validate the position that I’m validating now as a response to him insisting that he is a “biological female.” That’s what prompted me to talk to my trans friend about this.

There is no reason why we have to adhere to the weird gender/sex distinction other than giving a half-assed attempt at appeasing transphobes (half-assed because “Gender and sex are different!” isn’t even a satisfactory argument for them).

“Cis” and “trans,” at least for the time being, are good enough distinctions. We don't need convoluted shit like "Trans women are not female, but they're women!" or "Trans women are socially women but not biologically female!" If people can't be satisfied by "Trans women are women who happen to be trans, and they are also female." and "Cis women are women who happen to be cis, and they are also female." as the prime distinction, then that's their damn problem and not mine or any trans person's for that matter.

[–] SexUnderSocialism@hexbear.net 24 points 9 months ago (1 children)

How does one change sex when they have no sex? kubrick-stare

[–] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 10 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Officer, I am for the abolition of sex and the abolition of sex. volcel-police ^thisisabit^

[–] VOLCEL_POLICE@hexbear.net 7 points 9 months ago

The VOLCEL POLICE are on the scene! PLEASE KEEP YOUR VITAL ESSENCES TO YOURSELVES AT ALL TIMES.

نحن شرطة VolCel.بناءا على تعليمات الهيئة لترويج لألعاب الفيديو و النهي عن الجنس نرجوا الإبتعاد عن أي أفكار جنسية و الحفاظ على حيواناتكم المنويَّة حتى يوم الحساب. اتقوا الله، إنك لا تراه لكنه يراك.

volcel-police

[–] BeamBrain@hexbear.net 17 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Twilight Sparkle would never say such a thing

[–] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 21 points 9 months ago (2 children)

I am canceling Twilight Sparkle

[–] Angel@hexbear.net 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I remember this cringe from my early days of figuring out my queerness.

[–] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 12 points 9 months ago

I used the genderbread man in my high school GSA ooooooooooooooh We need to provide better political education for the youth

[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't including "assigned at birth" suggest they either don't think its immutable or that its just a social construction (or both)?

The graphic also lumps female and woman together and male and man together.

[–] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 10 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Colloquially, female & woman and male & man are the same. There are few situations where people use them with distinction, and I only see it used for either technical reasons (like geneticists) or a way to be casually transphobic.

Sex assigned at birth is such a can of worms lol. I've seen a couple feminists use CAxAB (coercively assigned x at birth) to make it clear that sexing is a social construct. On the other hand I've seen a lot of people use AFAB and AMAB when it's completely irrelevant. Even in medical settings it's not relevant. I am "AMAB" but I have a vulva and breasts. My partner is "AFAB" but they have PCOS, which gives them facial hair and is present in up to a tenth of the human population yet isn't considered an intersex condition probably because it would show how ridiculous the sex binary is. So honestly I kind of prefer the MTF/FTM terminologies because they're much clearer that transition changes your sex, but they also imply you were something that you never were just like AGAB terminology (let's be clear, trans people are not meaningfully socialized as the sex they're coercively assigned at birth; at most a trans woman is socialized male only in the same sense a masking autistic person is socialized as a neurotypical... I could go on about this for a while). Also it's funny how AGAB is the shorthand form of assigned sex at birth.

[–] emeralddawn45@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I mean I feel like 'coercively assigned' is kind of redundant, as 'assigned' already implies that you didn't have any say in the matter. That's kind of the point of the terminology as is.

[–] Angel@hexbear.net 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It may be linguistically redundant, but it still establishes a point that a lot of people seem to forget about assigned sex at birth: that it is coercive and rooted in social construction. The point is that, with a lot of people allowing "AMAB/AFAB" essentialism to take the gender binary's place (because they are functionally the same thing, whether AGAB essentialists will admit it or not), we need to remember that "AMAB" and "AFAB" have way less important meaning than people give it. We're now at a point where I've legitimately seen people say things like "I support AFAB rights!" and it's honestly disgusting.

[–] emeralddawn45@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

That just seems like terf shit, and I feel like disgusting people will find a way to be disgusting no matter what terms we use. But I see your point, thanks for expounding.

[–] Angel@hexbear.net 7 points 9 months ago

Yeah, I'm not a fan of using terms like "CAxAB" either, but I get where it comes from. I don't want any kind of gender essentialism at all actually, and it honestly would become a euphemism treadmill if we keep replacing terms. For instance, "AMAB" and "AFAB" have become what "biologically male" and "biologically female" are, and if "CAMAB" and "CAFAB" came into regular usage, the same exact shit would happen with that term.

[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com 4 points 9 months ago

Colloquially, female & woman and male & man are the same. There are few situations where people use them with distinction, and I only see it used for either technical reasons (like geneticists) or a way to be casually transphobic.

They're different parts of speech (male/female can also be a noun, but usually only done by people like disconnected from the subjects they're describing, like cops and scientists). I mentioned that the graphic doesn't differentiate them as a positive about it FTR.

On the other hand I’ve seen a lot of people use AFAB and AMAB when it’s completely irrelevant.

I've probably used it in times you'd probably think it was irrelevant as a way of avoiding making more specific claims. Easier to say what I'm not (which AMAB, imo, implies - I don't agree it implies you ever were the thing; just that others said you were).

So honestly I kind of prefer the MTF/FTM terminologies because they’re much clearer that transition changes your sex

Back when I was a lot more ignorant about gender/sex/etc, I liked those labels because it was clear what was meant. Given transphobes will say things like "we need to stop transmen from going into the women's bathroom" when they mean to exclude trans women, I was never 100% what was meant when they're used.

Now I'm not a fan of them because they feel like they exclude NBs (which usually is not intended) or those who don't medically transition.

at most a trans woman is socialized male only in the same sense a masking autistic person is socialized as a neurotypical… I could go on about this for a while

My mom certainly isn't socialized as a girl. And she was AFAB and identifies as a woman (granted, her definition of "woman" is based 100% only on the bits she was born with). Socialization is certainly more complex than AGAB. It describes how people TRY to socialize with us. Was at a family gathering (these tend to be very woman-dominated) not long after realizing I was an egg and my cousin's BF tried to do guy talk with me (sports or something) and quickly got bored and went to chat with my mom instead. Just kinda funny seeing that gendered socialization expectations break down in such an obvious way.

[–] kristina@hexbear.net 15 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I'm gay

I also don't feel like I have a male sex even though I did have it at one point. Sex isn't an immutable characteristic, most people with xy chromosomes in fact tend to lose the y with age, and my breast tissue produces a significant amount of estrogen, and I have been on it long enough to permanently depress my testosterone levels. If I somehow had to stop my meds it'd be bad for my bones but the t doesn't fully come back, and I have proof of it once after not having e for six months. I'm somewhere in between at this point in regards to sex, even without surgery imo

[–] Angel@hexbear.net 18 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'm also gayI had a male sex with your dad last night

[–] kristina@hexbear.net 18 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Based I'm so glad he's opened up more possibilities, though he's probably too old for you

[–] Angel@hexbear.net 14 points 9 months ago

A good DILF satisfies my cravings every once in a while

[–] ashinadash@hexbear.net 13 points 9 months ago

makima-think Gender is fuckin fake shit

I changed my sex this past year

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 12 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Will pregnancy be abolished in the future with advancing technology or will it just become something anyone is able to do?

These are the real questions folks!

[–] WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com 12 points 9 months ago (1 children)

There's been work into functional womb transplants, but the focus has been cis women. But its not really that farfetched that it could be accomplished in the near future for trans women, but I don't know if there's anyone skilled/knowledgeable enough to try it and able to get ethical boards to approve it.

Personally, I do hope it is largely abolished. No clue how progress towards that is. Been a while since I've seen anyone who spends a lot of time advocating for it.

[–] kristina@hexbear.net 4 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

A friend of mine actually emailed the guy leading research on womb transplants and he said that nothing technically prevents trans women, but the surgery is currently a very dangerous one and they only allow applicants that have a higher chance of success (prior pregnancies, fairly healthy, can produce their own eggs, among other criteria). He said once the technology matures over the next decade or so and the kids currently born reach the end of early childhood development they would be more interested in expanding the criteria

[–] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 12 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Babies will be produced both in vivo in either endogenous or transplanted wombs, and ex vivo.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 13 points 9 months ago

I'm now imagining a culture war between modernist ex vivo child birth and transplanted tradwombs.

[–] alexandra_kollontai@hexbear.net 12 points 9 months ago

Thank you for this. The unicorn always made me feel kinda uncomfortable. I think it was a necessary step for my transradicalisation, but now I've surpassed the need for it.

[–] Pisha@hexbear.net 10 points 9 months ago
[–] panned_cakes@hexbear.net 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

think at this point the ironic bellcurve meme needs more Choppd n Screwed treatment

[–] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I can make a variant with the political horseshoe

[–] panned_cakes@hexbear.net 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

could always combine them into a horrifying entity that mocks creation itself

[–] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 8 points 9 months ago

Yeah I have a couple ideas... I'll cook it up later and post a template for future use

[–] tactical_trans_karen@hexbear.net 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I haven't really heard about this before, kind of a foreign idea to me (hell, the idea of being trans is still a big shock to me). Idk, I am what I am. Wish I had a uterus and all the typically accompanying bits. How should we refer to male, female, and intersex anatomy? Like, I'm a girl with a ding dong so what what would I be referred to as?

[–] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 9 points 9 months ago

Well, the point is there is no set male, female, and intersex anatomy. There are a collection of physical characteristics that modern patriarchal society associates with say, the female body, but a very significant portion of cisgender women would fail to completely check off every one of them. Trans women can acquire many of these traits, and the number they can acquire grows as technology advances. The traits that make up "biological sex" are not scientifically objective, either. For instance, facial hair is considered a male secondary sex characteristic, yet PCOS causes it in what "science" would call "females." It also causes higher testosterone levels, so you would expect it to be considered an intersex condition. But then one-tenth of the population would be intersex, and that would have all sorts of Implications. The point is, "biological" sex is highly socially constructed. Anyway, as long as sex exists, it's still useful to use terms like transgender & cisgender, man & woman.

Like, I'm a girl with a ding dong so what what would I be referred to as?

As far as we're concerned right now under our current capitalist patriarchy, you're a trans woman. I imagine in the future we will stop sexing babies and medical professionals will simply consult your chart for relevant biological data and medical history. As for how people will self-identify this expression of their humanity in the future, who knows.

[–] KittyBobo@hexbear.net 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Is that unicorn from something, I swear I've seen it before.

[–] iridaniotter@hexbear.net 4 points 9 months ago

Gender unicorn. The sequel to the genderbread person. The genderbread person was completely binary, while the gender unicorn adds a third variable in all the categories. Associating nonbinary inclusion with unicorns was an interesting choice...