this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2023
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Mildly Infuriating

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[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 170 points 1 year ago (21 children)

reminder that every time people complain about wokeness they're literally just complaining about being conscious about systemic racism, because that's what woke means.

Just replace "woke" with "being a decent person" and it becomes pretty clear what these people want.

[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 103 points 1 year ago (10 children)

"Woke" started out as a simple acknowledgment that a person is conscious of the systemic oppression of various groups. Now the right wing has got its claws into the term it's been effectively neutered. Now all it means is, "stuff that right wingers don't like"

It's like "defund the police" which quickly became "abolish all policing".

It's a useful strategy for them and it works to prevent honest discussion on how to solve societal problems by preventing people from having a shared understanding of the language needed for such discussion.

[–] AlternatePersonMan@lemmy.world 42 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Ugh, "defund the police" is a terrible phrase if you actually want the movement to succeed. I wish they would have gone with something along the lines of "police reform". Immediately every conservative glommed onto "now they want to abolish all police!"

We do need a massive overhaul to police. Unfortunately that means better marketing of the idea of it's going to happen.

[–] IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I could be wrong but "defund the police" was just a discussion point for activists talking amongst themselves. In that context it makes sense. What happened was that this inelegant phrase was seized as a weapon by the right and then every Dem politician had to answer if they supported the idea of abolishing the police.

I'd imagine that many people would be receptive to the idea of taking some money out of police budgets so social workers and people trained in deescalation can be hired. For example cops aren't a good fit when dealing with people facing mental health crises because they mostly turn to use of force and make a bad situation worse.

If you twist this into, "are you in favor of abolishing all police?" then most people are going to say, "hell no, what a stupid idea, you moron".

Now any discussion about the rotten state of policing in the US had been effectively hobbled. Discussion is shut down. The right wing wins.

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[–] LazaroFilm@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I still have a hard time how “woke” is bad. Woke means your not asleep, it means you are not guided by others. How can people turn this into a bad thing. I’m proud to be woke.

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[–] markr@lemmy.world 139 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Lumping 'always' with 'sometimes' is cooking your results to meet your objective.

[–] ZC3rr0r@lemmy.ca 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That was the most infuriating thing about this whole post to me. Elon's braindead take is on brand and expected at this point, but that chart (or worse, the reaserch behind it) is the true crime here.

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[–] bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 97 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Study is done by "TheFire.org," which is described as a competitor to the ACLU.

I know... why do we need a competitor to the ACLU?

Well, per Wikipedia: "FIRE has been described as a competitor of the ACLU. In 2021, the organization had an annual revenue of $16.1 million. FIRE has received major funding from groups which primarily support conservative and libertarian causes, including the Bradley Foundation, Sarah Scaife Foundation, and the Charles Koch Institute."

Oh Charles Koch, you scoundrel.

[–] ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de 23 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They have unmatched methods. Is there any other place on the internet with 2024 college free speech rankings?

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[–] Ranvier@sopuli.xyz 97 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If this graph isn't just made up bs in the first place, one thought I recall from every major college campus I've been to is random religious preachers camped out every day telling everyone they're evil, subhuman, and going to hell. Guessing the atheists find that a little more annoying and worthy of shouting back at than some of the religiously inclined.

[–] XanXic@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Nazi: "white power!" Normal people: "hey, stfu!" Cristian Conservatives: "hey I don't agree with it but let's hear him out. Some people might agree, his ideas deserve to be discussed and given a platform"

[–] III@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

Alternatively:

Reasoned person: "We should help poor people"

Christian Conservatives: "STFU you woke liberal piece of shit, I hope you die! Go suck Biden's dick, loser"

[–] Djtecha@lemm.ee 81 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ahh yes a graph without citation of research, lovely

[–] Seasoned_Greetings@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Let's go a step further and analyze exactly what this graph is saying:

There's only about a 20% distribution difference in the "never" sections between Christians and atheists. So on average, 4/5 atheists would answer the exact same as Christians. All this graph says is that Christians are barely more tolerant than people who identify as atheist. Barely is the key word. If anything, this graph proves that tolerance levels don't fluctuate that much for the individual between differing religions.

But Bible thumpers need any win they can get, so they don't read the data for what it is, they just see one bar longer than the other and declare victory.

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[–] Izzy@lemmy.world 68 points 1 year ago (5 children)

What does it mean to "Shout down a speaker"? What are they speaking about and what is the purpose of shouting at them?

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 72 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When the hate preachers show up on campus with a bullhorn and try to tell everyone that they deserve to burn in hell, they don't want the reat of the world to tell them to STFU.

[–] Izzy@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I see. If someone is yelling obscenities at you then its probably ok to yell at them too although I wouldn't bother personally. I don't think this poll can mean anything though as I imagine everyone has different understandings of what a "speaker" is and is doing.

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[–] ninjan@lemmy.mildgrim.com 26 points 1 year ago

These open questions are always kinda crap to draw conclusions from because we don't know how the question was interpreted by the people answering. In this case we also don't know the sample size of the groups. Could also be a multitude of other variables at play like location because there are few places where you can find all these religions while getting a good sample size and controlling for other variables like income, education, age etc.

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[–] teft@startrek.website 65 points 1 year ago (12 children)

There seems to be an innate need for religion.

For whom? Because I sure as shit don't have any need to believe in fairy tales.

[–] TheDoozer@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think the biggest issue is religious people that can only view things through the lense of their own perspective equate any belief system with religion. And since we, as humans, categorize everything, everyone has a "belief system," even if you believe in absolutely nothing (nihilism).

So "atheism" is considered a religion, believing in the scientific method is a religion, and believing in the inherent and equal rights of people is a religion.

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[–] crackajack@reddthat.com 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

The questioning is stupid. There is no nuance on the categorisation of frequency because "always" and "sometimes" are put together. They do not mean the same thing! "Always" means "all the time", "sometimes" means "on occasions". I am an advocate for free speech as much as the next person, but there is limit to that right because history has shown what can happen if free speech is absolute-- which led us the Holocaust and the Rwandan genocide. Therefore, "sometimes" you COULD shout down someone depending on the content being spouted. So, on a case by case basis, "on occasions" you could shout down someone.

As another poster pointed out, the company who made the survey is conducted by conservative group, FIRE, which is Koch-funded so obviously there is clear bias and dishonesty in the framing of the survey.

[–] Gamey@feddit.de 17 points 1 year ago (6 children)

You freedome ends where someone elses starts, otherwhise noone except you will be free, I don't get why Americans often have such a hard time with that!

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[–] Notorious_handholder@lemmy.world 46 points 1 year ago (18 children)

Wait what's the difference between Atheist, No response, and Nothing?

Also why is there a generic Christian but then also Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox? But then they just Muslim and not it's different denominations? Why even have different denominations when you have the generic catch all and the Other category?

This graph categorization makes no sense!

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[–] Mrs_deWinter@feddit.de 46 points 1 year ago (18 children)

Basically, "every opinion I don't like is a religion."

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[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 39 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Personally, I didn't stop believing because of the intolerances. I stopped believing because it was an obvious ancient attempt to control people that worked to various degrees but still has the dumb shit people thought was plausible back when they didn't understand much and didn't think there was any way to disprove their claims.

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[–] archiotterpup@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have questions about this survey.

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[–] amio@kbin.social 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Getting infuriated over this stupid prick's bullshit, mildly or otherwise, just isn't worth it.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 37 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I love that he did a 100% 180 on everything he "believed in", from being pro science, atheist, and left leaning to anti science, christian, and conservative troll and none of his followers batted an eye. He does what he thinks is popular, what will keep him talked about. Nuts to that.

[–] Tenthrow@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

He's a narcissist to the extreme. The only thing he believes in is himself. And how sad a god it is.

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[–] Reverendender@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago

Good lord this man is stupid

[–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (14 children)

Atheists: shout at people.

Religious disciples: shoot people.

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[–] phx@lemmy.world 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Also, what is the relation of "a speaker" to religion? If somebody comes in to speak and starts talking about how we need to gas more jews, stop women from voting, and put the blacks back out in the cotton fields then fuck yeah I'm gonna support cutting them off and sending them packing.

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[–] AnyProgressIsGood@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Theres a few problems with this random graph. Wouldn't be surprised if it was just made up

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[–] Commiunism@lemmy.wtf 29 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The word woke lost all meaning due to far-right wingers constantly using it as a catch-all term for everything they don't like.

Also, I love how they made it so the top 3 bad guys are atheists, agnostics (which are pretty much the same thing) and the jewish. They're not even trying to be covert with propaganda.

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[–] Zeth0s@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago (11 children)

Non-American here. What is Christian and why Catholic, protestant, and orthodox Christians are not Christians?

This doesn't make much sense

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[–] CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Well, it seems the same ding-a-lings claiming agnosticism and atheism are religions are also prone to claiming science is a "religion", following evidence is a "religion", and so on...

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[–] krayj@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

TIL, my belief that I have the right to call out bullshit when I see it is considered a religion now.

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[–] smollittlefrog@lemdro.id 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why is there a "Nothing" under the beliefs? Wouldn't that fall under "Agnostic"?

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