get f*ked. George carlin applies.

I love how the propagandists just keep beating the same drum after the Biden administration has constructed a ceasefire deal which has received unanimous UN Security Council support, and did appear to be moving forward until about 14 hours ago. (Edit: It might still, that's not over yet.)

It's almost like if the US just turns its back on Israel, we'd lose our leverage to press a negotiated agreement, which would surely not end with Israel digging in their heels even further. (/s) It's almost like geopolitics are - wait for it - complicated.

Second Edit: Let's also not forget that Israel is a nuclear power. What do you think happens when Israel's back is against the wall, they're running out of conventional weapons, and Iran and/or other groups decide to take advantage?

Both sides do suck. but only one is trying to get an orange dictator elected. I'm still voting Biden. Democrats aren't perfect but it's the only choice we have.

The only person who can so militantly cling to the idea that both sides are exactly the same is the person for whom the outcomes are exactly the same.

IE the person who needs to do a lot more shutting the fuck up and listening to the people for whom this shit is life and death.

I do think there is a constructive way to talk about how both sides accommodate the interests of the ruling class. We are at the point where our choices are corporate shills and fascist corporate shills. I am going to vote for the non-fascists every time, but don't tell me I am harming the conversation when I expect the corporate shills to be better too.

Sure, both sides are not the same. But the "good" side is still part of the system that allows the "bad" side to exist.

So by all means, vote for the party that will do less damage in the short term. But oppose FPTP voting at the same time.

both sides aren't bad.

one side is bad. the other side is a comically evil, fucking nightmare that is going to make sure all future generations for the foreseeable future will suffer things that can be avoided by voting for the "bad" side.

don't be stupid. one side is banning abortion, is going to go after simple contraceptives next, and will certainly ban gay marriage as soon as possible. their obsession with trans people is just a foot in the door.

And to say bOtHsIdEsSaMe you have to simplify to the point of stupidity to try to equate them. There's no detail or nuance. The world is a million shades of grey but they can only see black or white.

100% true. "Both sides" arguments exist SOLELY to deflect from awful things done by Republicans, or detract from positive things done by Democrats.

Not once have I seen it deployed for any other purpose.

Edit for the pedants: I should probably have not led with "100% true" before the sentence where I clearly stated my position. Although I think the delta between what I wrote after that and what is in OP is a difference without a distinction, if some of you want to feel like you really got me, you go right ahead.

Absolutely correct. And when you see them here on lemmy, and there are a TON of them suggesting not to vote-

CALL THEM OUT.

I would LOVE to see a movement form to start pushing these bad actors out of here.

Don't forget, Trump said if minorities vote, Republicans will never win another election. Republicans are doing what they can to stay in power and make it harder for people to vote.

Vote.

And vote down-ticket. Your local elections are far more important than the presidency.

But both sides ARE bad. Still, go vote.

It's ok to be critical of our politicians regardless of which "team" they're on. We should all be holding their feet to the fire every day.

Both sides are bad, votes third party.

Plus they cherry-pick items, take them out of context, distort them, then bombard social media with it in a way that tries to push as many visceral buttons as they can.

All the while actively ignoring any and all information that might challenge the narrative they are cynically pushing, of course.

It's probably damn near impossible to fully disentangle oneself from this addictive web, we all have fallen prey to weaponized disinformation at some level or other, and different disinformation campaigns target different segments of the population.

"both sides" arguments exist to remind us that neither is our friend. Yes, there are clear differences between the two, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend that one is the "good guys" and ones some unfathomable evil entity.

Neither side is my friend, and I aim to remember that. It doesn't mean I'm going to not vote. It doesn't mean I'm going to encourage others to not vote. It's simply an expression of "I am voting now under duress. None of these options appeals to me, but I must participate in the system lest I be consumed by it."

Both sides are bad. But vote anyway.

I watched this standup special (Chad Daniels) and I found myself getting annoyed at the premise of most of his jokes.

The premise is that there is a far left and a far right and both sides are bad and need to move closer to the middle.

A joke he made, for instance, boiled down to far right were racists while the far left is overly compassionate to living things. See, both sides are bad!

First, his far right example was not an exaggeration. That is literally how people on the far right think. The far left example was a funny exaggeration that almost nobody on the left believes.

Second, even with his exaggeration, the 2 extremes are in no way equivalently extreme. The far right needs to come over significantly before it is equally extreme as the far left.

Anyway, I felt like this whole special was an example of what is wrong with the way society talks about the right and left.

I made a graph:

FL—-——|M|—————————————-FR

In politics all parties are bad, each in their own unique way. It's just that they can be bad to vastly differing degrees.

Unfortunately lots of people struggle with continuums and see only black and white.