this post was submitted on 23 Jun 2024
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So as we all know, it is impossible for man to soar through the heavens as a bird does. Any attempt will lead one to be struck down from the skies for their hubris. It can't be done, Boeing is proof of this. So what if I wanted to do the next best thing?

I've heard the words "Learn to hack, learn to drone" echoed around these parts a few times. I've tried learning programming again and again, but it seems I'm just not that Type of trans woman. Instead I got really into CAD and 3d printing and remote control vehicles, so the "learn to drone" part really appeals to me. Problem is, I don't know where to start. Do I just buy a $300 DJI drone before they get banned? Do I learn how simulators work and practice a bunch first? Do fpv and bigger camera drones share a skillset? How do I not fuck up when I'm living in a big city? If I already have a transmitter, is that a cost I can save or do drones generally come with their own?

I'm also interested in reading about the ways people use drones for revolutionary purposes, for lack of a better term. I know local orgs have a need for good protest footage, but flying a drone downtown is probably super duper illegal and the new Remote ID rules would make me copbait if I were to say, sit in the bed of a leading truck and follow a march from above. Drones are super cool, but less so if a cop just shoots it down with his scifi radio gun and then tracks me down and arrests me.

By the way, has anyone ever built a drone? I already have a 3d printer and a transmitter I use for robot combat. And I'm pretty familiar with drone parts - motors made to spin propellers can also spin blades, and tiny receivers and batteries made for weight-limited flying vehicles are great for weight-limited fighting vehicles. I just don't understand flight controllers or cameras or propellers or how to pick parts or anything. It would also (with dubious legality) avoid the Remote ID issue and my homebrew drones wouldn't be banned for being Chinese spies.

So hey sickos, how do I learn to drone?

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[–] PorkrollPosadist@hexbear.net 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

There are many overlapping disciplines involved here. CAD/CAM and 3D printing will go a long way towards customization and specialization, but the components of an off-the-shelf model will probably be made using superior techniques and materials for the most part. I would choose something which is affordable and use these skills to try and augment its capabilities.

A more general grasp on flight and navigation could be quite useful. Planes, helicopters, and quad-copters behave quite differently. Quad-copters are incredibly maneuverable (with the aid of gyro sensors and complex stability-assist motor control firmware right on the drone), but they are also incredibly power-hungry compared to a more conventional RC airplane design. Spend some time thinking about what you are trying to accomplish, and choose an appropriate vehicle. Consider spending some time in a flight simulator (FlightGear is free software) to learn basic VFR/IFR navigation techniques, in addition to getting an idea of what causes a class of aircraft to stall and lose control in general.

Definitely study ham radio. If I were planning on using a drone to do ANYTHING cool, I would be highly motivated to gut the electronics. By starting from scratch, you know it won't have any snitchware in it, and you can make more fundamental choices about RF bands, antenna design, and transmission power. Choosing an appropriate band and antenna design are key if you are trying to control the thing from range. Even if you do not modify anything electronically from an off-the-shelf drone, a general understanding of ham radio will still give you many insights about how RF interference, control station position, RF frequency, and terrestrial obstructions will impact the signals, as well as an understanding about how RF triangulation and other countermeasures might be used to identify you. If you are doing anything super sketch, you don't want to be holding the controller and you don't want the controller to be located anywhere near you. I would try to set up a control station which relays controls across the internet and find a way to send it commands anonymously through the internet. Some Mr. Robot shit.

Start small. Mess around with the technology in completely benign ways. Learn the capabilities and limitations, and in the back of your mind, think about ways it can be applied.

If you are trying to construct a quad-copter drone from scratch, I am no expert, but I do have some experience with robotics from working with CNC machinery for a decade. PID controllers are they key to any closed-loop servo mechanism, and are used throughout navigation, avionics, and autopilot systems as well. They are used to target a setpoint (altitude, airspeed, angle of attack, heading, etc) and integrate historical sensor inputs to determine the correct amount of force to be applied to reach that setpoint as efficiently as possible. These are the basis of most industrial robotics as well as the cruise control in your car and the flight control systems you'll find in a modern airliner or a quadcopter drone. There are a lot of examples on Youtube and across the internet of people using Arduino boards to design various PID controllers.

[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Buy a tiny whoop to get started. You can fly them without FPV to train your brain for the spatial control thing if it's not already natural to you from other R/C stuff, then you can add FPV stuff to it. They're cheap, parts are cheap and there's a wide variety, and you can fly it indoors as well as outdoors.

I played with a tiny whoop for a while, got it running fpv and it was fun but it drove my cat crazy so I ended up giving it to my friend's kids.

[–] Babs@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago (2 children)

A BabyApe looks pretty neat - cheap enough, well-reviewed, comes with a PNP version so I can use my own tx/rx so I just need to figure out how it all plugs together. When I build a bot I just get a 4-channel receiver (I found one a super lightweight one that works with my tx) and plug each motor's ESC into an appropriate channel. I have a feeling flight controllers make that different.

Can I fpv without buying goggles, using my phone or something? That's the newest thing for me I think - combat bots usually don't have cameras.

God I need to do so much research.

[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago

Another bonus of the tinywhoop/cinewhoop/etc sized quads is there's usually a club in cities for racing them. I've never done it but it looks like fun, I only ever set up obstacles and courses indoors. Oh I also chased flying beetles for fun, there was no chance I'd ever catch them.

[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 5 points 4 months ago

Yeah there's definitely phone apps like the DJI stuff for that. The aliexpress/Alibaba stuff works pretty well if you're diligent about reading reviews on forums and reddit. My goggles were cheapo aliexpress ones and so was everything else. With tiny whoop sized quads you're just gonna be plugging the motors into the combination flight controller / esc, they're pretty streamlined and simple.

[–] InvaderZinn@midwest.social 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I think she deleted the video. But when she was first starting out, SexyCyborg (Naomi Wu) used a quadcopter to drop an esp8266 {deauther|wifi "jammer"} on top of a makerspace for being sexist(iirc). Combining drones with easy throwaway hardware like that always appealed to me. You can do all sorts of neat stuff with an esp32 these days.

Also, don't feel like you have to be able to program to hack. There's plenty of great tools and frameworks out there and hacking can largely be about information gathering using said tools. Just be careful, whatever you do!

[–] Babs@hexbear.net 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

God she is so fucking cool sometimes. Just found that payload system, the "Screaming Fist".

She also made a neat fpv monocular that clips on to a hat so you don't have to be blindfolded while flying. Given I don't have FPV goggles yet, I should look into making one of these.

[–] InvaderZinn@midwest.social 6 points 4 months ago

Oh, yeah, that's what it was called! Here's the video, for anyone interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdk4Zw2oYdc

I did a thing made a Drone Dart release system that was pretty ingenious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=969XGZ_t7cE

Something to keep in mind, DJI Drones broadcast their operator's GPS I'm sure some of the other ones out there do as well.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago
[–] egg1918@hexbear.net 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Can you buy drones that show you a live feed or can you only get ones that record it, then you gotta like upload it to your PC to see it?

[–] Babs@hexbear.net 12 points 4 months ago

Live feeds are very common and can be used to fly in first person view, or even race.

[–] nat_turner_overdrive@hexbear.net 9 points 4 months ago

Pretty common to run two cameras, one tiny one to send a live signal to the goggles, one for the HD video to be downloaded after the figt

[–] RyanGosling@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I'm also interested in reading about the ways people use drones for revolutionary purposes, for lack of a better term

If you’re talking about explosives, look into drop mechanisms. These are usually advertised as delivery drones. You’ll also need to consider battery life as a function of payload weight and distance, and the fact that the government has signal jammers and teams to triangulate your location. Perhaps one way to circumvent this is by standing in a crowded area and not using your phone. As for the explosives themselves, you’ll have to research that yourself

[–] Babs@hexbear.net 11 points 4 months ago

I was thinking more like, taking pictures and videos and stuff but that's pretty sick too.

[–] itappearsthat@hexbear.net 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Here is an incredibly interesting talk on building a fully autonomous drone with open-source tech. I watched this online and thought it probably should have been illegal to make this info public knowledge all in one place lol. This isn't necessarily directed at you OP, since it requires a fair bit of programming to integrate all this stuff, but it is very interesting.

[–] BountifulEggnog@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago

Do you want a camera drone (something that can hover and take good video) or an fpv drone (the cool goggles and tricks)? If you want to film protests and the like, a camera drone is really what you want. There's really nothing that compares to dji. They sell refurb units cheaper, and are the way to go in my opinion. I think the mini 3 is a fantastic drone and you really can't go wrong with it (assuming you don't want an fpv drone).

Do fpv and bigger camera drones share a skillset?

camera drones like the mini 3 don't really have a skillset tbh. You obviously need to remember what the two sticks do, but they are very stable in flight. If you go slow its easy. I let children fly my drone with no issue. If you can snag a mini 3 pro instead, they have built in obstacle avoidance in the front and back. So if you're flying forward, you really can't hit anything (watch out for wires though!).

If I already have a transmitter, is that a cost I can save or do drones generally come with their own?

If you build your own fpv drone you might be able to reuse it, even a lot of kits have a bring your own controller option. Anything dji should come with a controller however.

flying a drone downtown is probably super duper illegal

It depends on where you live, I know some big cities that you can fly over. The faa controls where you can fly a drone over, there's a map somewhere with the no fly zones. Cities can't control where you fly, but can control where you pilot from (and the faa requires a line of sight). Even if it is illegal shrug-outta-hecks I'd probably stay separate from the protest and you'll probably be fine. Most cops are actually pretty okay with drones, just be prepared to bring it back down. You're a hobbyist who just likes drones and didn't know the cities laws. If you really want to be in a lead vehicle, you might want to consider getting a go pro and some kind of really long pole, I've seen people take great video that way and you give pigs a lot less ammo.

But definitely be careful about crowds, you really aren't supposed to fly over them and I imagine they'd be a lot more upset if you were. There's always other stuff to fly over though.

the new Remote ID rules

Remote ID only applies if the drone weighs over 249 grams. The mini 3 (with the smaller, default batteries) is under this limit, as will a lot of ciniwoop fpv drones if you go that route.

I haven't built a drone before, but it is pretty standard for fpv drones and not an issue. There's videos on youtube, it does not look hard.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 6 points 4 months ago

It occurs to me that malicious bad actor types could throw a brick through a window then send a drone through the window to look around inside a building.

There are a couple of drone sims on steam, including i think one for vr that simulates fpv operation.