this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2023
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Given the harmful effects of light pollution, a pair of astronomers has coined a new term to help focus efforts to combat it. Their term, as reported in a brief paper in the preprint database arXiv and a letter to the journal Science, is "noctalgia." In general, it means "sky grief," and it captures the collective pain we are experiencing as we continue to lose access to the night sky.

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[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 126 points 1 year ago (16 children)

Don't think I've ever seen a legit night sky in person.

[–] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 61 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I saw the Milky Way for the first time when I visited Cooperstown New York 5 or so years back. My neck was sore by the time I stopped looking. It’s a shame most people don’t know what they’re missing out on.

[–] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 39 points 1 year ago (4 children)

When I lived out in the country I could see it almost every clear night. I could also watch satellites drift overhead, and there were so many fireflies I could walk through the woods at night without a flashlight.

Suburbs fucking suck.

[–] trslim@pawb.social 14 points 1 year ago

I used to live in Michigan. My family had a farm, nearest city was like 30 miles away, and it wasnt even a large city. I could see the stars and occasional nebula. I remember one winter, my family even saw the Northern Lights. It was magical.

Now I live in Tennessee, in a suburb. I'm lucky if I see a few stars at night. I hate it. I miss the night sky.

[–] NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

I like living near people but the dark night sky would be a welcome change.

[–] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Living in a tiny town has its drawbacks and everyone knows everyone’s business, but if you get the urge to just be alone you can head off in any compass direction and find peace out in nature. Sure the takeout options are more varied in the city but constant traffic noise fucking hurts my head and I can’t see any constellations anymore

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[–] QHC@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The lack of fireflies aren't a rural/urban thing, I don't think. I've always lived in suburbs of a mid-size city and definitely remember fireflies swarming around as a kid, too.

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[–] XeroxCool@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Check out Cherry Spring state park. It's a dedicated star park in mid north PA classes as Bortle 2 light pollution (cities are 8+, uninhabited it 1)

Edit: don't forgot to avoid the moon

[–] XeroxCool@lemmy.world 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

The Milky Way may be closer than you think. I had never really seen it until a few years ago. I was in my usual darker spot and took a picture of it with my phone's astro mode. I looked back up and suddenly, there it was. I just never knew what to look for or, more importantly, just how big the visible structure was.

I recommend taking a look at lightpollutionmap.info and seeing what's around you. I'm in a major city metro but dark-enough skies are less than 2 hours away. The Milky way revelation was in a "Bortle 5" zone (red on the map). Cities are class 8+, oceans/uninhabited is class 1. Constellations help you find the core (namely the tea pot/milk dipper asterism) and knowing what time of year/night to look is important. August is the usual ~10pm month but you can go out later at night earlier in the year and vice versa from about April (close to sunrise) to October (near sunset).

Be aware you need to adapt your eyes. Pupils dilate in seconds but the 20 minute thing comes from replenishing rhodopsin in your eyes. White/blue/purple light bleaches that compound but red doesn't. With enough commitment and knowledge at that same place, Andromeda becomes a naked eye object for me. Extremely faint and just a smudge, but unmistakable.

[–] 2Xtreme21@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I live in that gigantic red and purple blob in Northern Europe and I’m lucky if I can see 3 stars in the sky at night.

I’ve never ever seen a totally star-filled sky and it’s something I’m very sad about. One day I’ll head out to somewhere like the Australian Outback and just gaze up in awe.

[–] XeroxCool@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

The irony is that most of us live in a red/purple blob. A light pollution map pretty accurately matches population heat maps. The only outlier tends to be some resource mines, especially petroleum/gas fields with constant waste fires

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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wow! I'm closer than I thought! Thanks so much. This may change where I camp this weekend.

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[–] mostNONheinous@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Look up a light pollution map for your area, it will show you the darkest parts around you to go see the sky for what it really is. Usually within an hour or 2 of anywhere there is a place dark enough to see the milky way with your own eyes.

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[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I haven't seen the Milky Way for maybe 15-years. Even at my camp in the boondocks, nada. You have to really get out there, can't imagine where I would go from NW FL.

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[–] _number8_@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

it always seemed a bit like something in cartoons. it must've been so much more vibrant in ancient times, it makes sense why they were so into star tracking. like a big soap opera

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[–] Pantsofmagic@lemmy.world 93 points 1 year ago (6 children)

There was a NASA lady on StarTalk recently talking about how there's something like 360,000 more satellites planned/approved to go into orbit and it's going to completely erase the night sky. We're at something like 7700 currently.

[–] Philolurker@lemmy.world 36 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We are slowly turning ourselves into Krikkit.

[–] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Soon as we invented the little green piece of paper it was all downhill from there

[–] sep@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Should never have gotten down from the trees

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[–] YurkshireLad@lemmy.ca 75 points 1 year ago (4 children)

It’s shocking how many lights are left on during the night in a city or a built up area. Does a big box store need to keep its logo lit all night? We’re so desperate to shut out the beauty of the planet and blind ourselves with human made ugliness.

[–] XeroxCool@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's frustrating how many people have security lights aimed wrong. They're often aimed high, wasting light to the sky, and they're often mounted low, blinding you walking into your own home and leaving you vulnerable.

[–] ItsComplicated@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or those backyard street lights bright enough an airplane could land with!

[–] XeroxCool@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

The sad irony is that with no around to monitor the property, these [in]security lights are often just providing light to any thieves. If you see flashlights bobbing in a yard, it's suspicious. If you see someone walking through someone else's yard, it might just be the owner. If you light the yard and you aren't around to look, do the thieves make a sound?

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Be nice if everyone just used infrared and/or motion detection. There's no reason to have outdoor lights on all night.

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[–] BURN@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (6 children)

TBH if I’m out at night I’d much prefer it to be bright and lit up in the city. If the city is dark and quiet at night it feels more unsafe to residents.

Not saying it’s right, but it makes sense

[–] pgp@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The city can be lit and bright and keep the light pollution to a low. If only street lights were on, and these were directed towards the ground.

[–] Poggervania@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Additionally, you’d use a different kind of light for street lights. On the island of Hawaii, that island specifically has a light pollution law that mandates all street lights have to use an orange light bulb, and they can only be in certain places. It’s amazing because you can see so many stars in the night sky.

If city lights are gonna be on 24/7, we should start to see if we can get traction for reduced brightness and installing less light polluting lights.

[–] carbrewr84@kbin.social 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's technically not orange light bulbs they have to use, it's a specific lamp style called 'low pressure sodium'

Here's an article that explains the reasoning behind Hawaii's lighting sources and the regulations:
https://www.accessfixtures.com/hawaii-lighting-ordinances-dark-sky-regulations/

[–] Zak@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

That site is claiming that phosphor-converted amber LEDs provide all the benefits of low-pressure sodium. They do not; one of the benefits of LPS is that astronomers have a very narrow frequency band to filter out, while PC amber is much wider. Monochromatic amber LEDs are more comparable to LPS.

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[–] DarkThoughts@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Or the big advertisement screens. I get the need for street lights but they also don't have to be the most brightest super white LEDs that exist either. Nowadays I literally can't even tell whether it is cloudy or not, because the sky is just this mushy grey noise. And the sad thing is that I still remember the night sky from a couple decades ago when cities weren't quite as bright. Now you can be lucky to see the little dim flickering of the brightest odd stars every now and then.

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[–] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

As someone currently living across the road from a strip mall with a dozen various businesses…NO YOU DO NOT NEED TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON 24/7

[–] BoilingTea@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Reminds me of how we sometimes export light pollution. When I first got to Afghanistan I thought I would be able to see the stars being in the middle of a desert. That idea was quickly made harder to accomplish by the massive light pollution coming from camp leatherneck which, along with the moon dust perpetually floating mid air, killed any chance to see the stars clearly for miles around. Base turned a patch of desert into a sprawling light factory in just a few years.

[–] ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)
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[–] LaunchesKayaks@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

I live in the darkest part of my town. When my porch light burned out, I decided to not replace it because sometimes I can see stars at night.

[–] morrowind@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago

Why is every other website being bought by future inc and using that same layout

[–] khalic@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Little reminder that your eyes need 30min to adjust to night conditions, and just a second of light to start the counter again. So no smartphones, no watch, no kindle, not even a lighter or the led on your vape, if you want to enjoy the experience fully.

[–] FluffyPotato@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In my parents farm the night sky is perfectly visible. They live far from any town and there are no lights you can't just turn off so sometimes I just look at the sky when I'm visiting.

Plenty of places like this still in my country thankfully.

[–] negativeyoda@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I've always lived in cities and didn't see the milky way until I was in my 30s.

Anyhow, I took my kid camping last weekend and she couldn't believe how many stars there were. We were both enjoying it but then the string of SpaceX satellites went by and kind of ruined the moment

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[–] khalic@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately, even secluded towns suffer because of light diffusion in the atmosphere. The only places left where you can see it, the way it was before electric lights, are mountains and extremely far places (think middle of the ocean or the poles)

[–] FlashZordon@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Lived in the city for a few years before moving back to my rural hometown. The night sky without any light pollution was definitely an underrated thing I didn't realize I missed.

[–] cheese_greater@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Try in a small town. Seriously, tho villages are better. Go in the backroads, you'll have plenty of sky and stars to get lost in.

[–] BolexForSoup@kbin.social 25 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You'd be surprised how much "bleeding" there is. You also can't scope in certain directions because of even really far off cities. You're often forced into a specific cone.

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[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Only in the most remote deserts, wilderness areas and oceans can you find a sky as dark as our ancestors knew them.

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[–] otter@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago

The article is about how there's less of it over time. Areas that were once nice (ex. Great views over the water or over a nice field) no longer work because of nearby light pollution.

[–] Sanctus@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

There are few places left on Earth to see an unpolluted night sky. Definitely nowhere near civilization. On top of that, light pollution still drowns out dimmer objects permanently. We are blinding ourselves globally. To our ancestors the sky was a living light show. Its no mystery why they thought gods lived there.

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[–] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

The part that wasn't in the title:

astronomers have invented a new term to describe the pain associated with this loss: "noctalgia," meaning "sky grief."

[–] nnullzz@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

What a simple, great word to describe it.

[–] Skua@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

This feels like it comes from the Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows. It'd fit well

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