Ukrainian Army on war-crime spree in Kursk – Chechen commander : worldnews

[–] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 28 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Animals, same as in WW2.

[–] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 28 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Except this time they're doxxing themselves by gloating on TikTok and YouTube. Unlike the original Nazis, these ones are stupid enough to not burn the paper trail. If Russia is serious about denazification, not by bombs but, like, in general (one can hope) - it will be easier for justice to be served, at least in theory. They must not be allowed to escape to the West, lest Russia wants to find them all over the place afterwards - in Africa, for example.

[–] Kirbywithwhip1987@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They have to be stopped and executed to the last one this time, no more half measures but completely unironically.

[–] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 2 months ago

Inshallah

[–] CyberMonkey404@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 months ago

Russia is serious about denazification, not by bombs but, like, in general

Given how much Russian government officials are bleating about "traditional values"? I wouldn't hold my breath

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 26 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Something I don't see mentioned much bit it think is worth flagging up: they're mad. They've spent years now getting completely hosed by the first peer force to take an interest in stopping their Dirlewanger-type fun in the Donbas, and now they're venting their fear and gamer rage on random Russian people to feel powerful again before the hammer drops.

[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 24 points 2 months ago (4 children)

I'm reminded of something I recall reading a (US) general saying a few months back, that they wanted terror attacks in Russia to scare people into opposing the war; I'm beginning to think if I ever read something from a general of them saying something hideous they'd like to see happen then I should expect it to happen.

[–] redtea@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 months ago

They're quite candid much of the time. They just dress it up and the general public either never hears about it or only hears the distorted version.

[–] D61@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago

Sure thing General (wink wink), when Osama bin Laden did a terror attack on the USA in 2001 the response was absolutely to think critically about the USA's imperialist ways and absolutely not a global tantrum that has murdered and displaced many millions of people all over the world.

[–] OrnluWolfjarl@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 months ago

The head of Ukrainian intelligence had said before that Russians only understand fear, in response to bombing civilian targets and raiding incursions in Belgorod. And some of the units in Kursk are under the direct control of Ukrainian intelligence.

And there's a video of a Ukrainian POW, who surrendered in Vovchansk, stating that he was recruited from prison into the Ukrainian army, and the recruiters promised them they would be used to attack Russia, and then let loose to rape and pillage as much as they wanted as bonus payment.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

I thought that after experiences of Curtis LeMay command they might finally learn something about military terror campaigns but apparently not. Seems they believed their own media myths while ignoring legit analysis of their own military (just as LeMay did).

[–] CyberMonkey404@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

they might finally learn something about military terror campaigns

They learned they can get away with them

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yeah they have only two points: mass usage of expensive weapons and mass loss of civilian life, both very appealing to US military and oligarchy.

[–] ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 2 months ago (1 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUTETHYijdg&ab_channel=PatrickLancaster

Patrick Lancaster just published an interview with a civillian who said that the invading Kursk ukranians shot and killed his pregant wife, on purpose.

[–] TankieReplyBot@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 months ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] sinovictorchan@lemmygrad.ml 19 points 2 months ago

I could believe that the report that pro-NATO Ukrainian forces brutally kill civilians from their change of media antagonism from Putin to all Russians, the disregard of 8 years of massacre of ethnic minority by Euro-maiden coup government in Kyiv before Putin's intervention, and the false flag terrorist attacks by Azov thugs in rebel territories. The anti-terrorist terrorism from Pax Americana that support puppet Zelensky is further evidence that Kyiv military committed acts of terrorism.

[–] Mzuark@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 2 months ago

They are such scum

[–] darkcalling@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 2 months ago (2 children)

I have no doubt they're doing Nazi terror shit. Pointless from a strategic point of view but not from the view of Kiev's Nazi lovers or of the US which has long loved vicious terror tactics and torture.

Russia should really just destroy their power grid entirely, just bring the country to its knees, bomb rail bridges that lead into the countries of western suppliers, bomb road infrastructure.

Sadly propagandized westerners I'm sure even in 10 years will call the video evidence that will eventually reach us "fake" so there is little hope for justice outside of Russia pressing the war all the way.

Which may be why the US wants Ukraine doing this. They want Ukraine to fight to the bitter end and by forcing them to commit atrocities Russia's government cannot end the war without demanding justice of the very people in power who would have to sign off on any peace. They're making them put even more skin in the game so to speak.

[+] mhdcfd@lemmygrad.ml 31 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 months ago

They took out like 60-70% of their power plants. They do not target civilians at all though unlike what the media is saying.

[+] darkcalling@lemmygrad.ml -6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

As opposed to the horrors of fascist war criminal squads murdering and committing other crimes against Russian civilians? As opposed to this war dragging on and more Russian soldiers die?

It is the fault of the Ukrainian people for not resisting their government's coup to fascism, for not resisting the rise of fascist militias. For not resisting the escalation to war with Russia. For being good little liberals who passively let it happen. Just as US-ians passively let their country supply a genocide, passively let their country do all these horrible things.

I don't have much sympathy for them and more importantly I don't see a way out. Russia didn't choose to make them die and suffer the US did. Russia has only the power to choose how quickly they accept this. The US is actively feeding people to the meat grinder. So crying and boo-hooing about the terrorist nazi regime state and its people suffering is just... I don't care.

I mean maybe you'll pull out that uh those people were propagandized and of course they were, so no were Nazis, look what the allies did to Nazi Germany and the civilians there. They surely did not have a fun time but it was necessary to fight that way. Just as it's necessary I think for Russia to take the gloves off. Power is not a civilian thing. It's dual use. Power is being used to manufacture drones to attack and kill Russian civilians, to damage and attempt to destroy civilian infrastructure. Power is being used to power their war machine, their repair facilities, their modern military conveniences. Take it out and they have to truck in more fuel and burn more fuel and then you can cut those fuel supplies and cause shortages.

Russia didn't choose total war. They went out of their way to avoid it. The US chose that. The path is before us. The question is not will Ukrainian civilians suffer. They have, they will, they should have stood up in 2014 and done something and you know I feel bad for the individuals who know this is fucked up and can't escape but not worse than I feel for the Russian civilians who are being murdered, sexually assaulted, tortured, used as human shields, living in fear, suffering from this war. So the question is how many more Russian civilians will suffer with them before the foot is put down and Ukraine is beaten to a bloody pulp such that it cannot fight or resist anymore. Because that's what it's likely to take. The west refuses to give up, refuses to accept reasonable conditions for Russia and the Ukrainian regime will not give up. They're doing total war, fall of Berlin levels of fanatacism and it will likely take fall of Berlin level destruction of their country to smash their state, their ability to wage war and neutralize them and bring peace not only to the Russians suffering because of Ukrainians who didn't stand up but to those same Ukrainians.

The only path is through.

[–] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I'm sorry, but this is a bit fucked up, and at the very least naive and idealistic.

they should have stood up in 2014

First of all - many of them did. Secondly - the vast majority of the people did not realize that a coup was taking place. And they were genuinely angry at the government in Kiev at that time, which was corrupt af - that is how the majority of color revolutions happen.

It is the fault of the Ukrainian people for not resisting their government’s coup to fascism

Perhaps. Although I'd say it's sort of hard to do when you have unarmed masses of the people against well-trained death squads who have weapons with live ammo and full US/CIA backing. The people of Mariupol might tell you a thing or two after expelling the Banderites in May 2014. If only it were that easy.

You know what I was doing in 2014, for instance? Spending an entire year in a psychiatric hospital - I got hospitalized with stress-related anxiety disorder, lots of details, I won't go into them. Point being - I missed it entirely. I didn't even know what was going on at the time. And no, I'm not absolving myself of all responsibility - at the very least I should not have been apolitical almost my entire life. But I'll tell you this - there's a shit ton of people who missed the events of 2014 simply because they were too preoccupied with their miserable lives.

For being good little liberals who passively let it happen.

Need I remind you that 73% of the people voted for Zelensky in 2019, primarily because he promised to end the war in the Donbass and normalize relations with Russia? Again, it's not like people all of a sudden want war. Keep them in the dark and in poverty long enough - and they will have no time to read a single book in years, let alone become class conscious and politically active.

its people suffering is just… I don’t care.

Gee, thanks a lot. Easy to say when you have no skin in the game.

because of Ukrainians who didn’t stand up

It never worked that way. You place the brunt of responsibility on those who have no power in the game. The Nazis did not come to power because the German people voted them in - they were forced into power. And sure, there is a certain degree of responsibility, I'll give you that - but then again, remind me kindly - who did all the dirty work behind the scenes? Who was instigating ethnic separatism in the USSR? Who nurtured those Banderite Nazis for 50+ years in their backyard (Canada) and then started sending them in after 1991? Who invested billions of dollars re-educating the local population into being liberals - something I can attest to myself, being a product of the education system? Who impoverished said country, first with shock therapy in 1990s and then with subsequent IMF loans? Who instigated two color revolutions in a single decade? Who couped the government in 2014? Who supported the Nazis every single step of the way, gave them those shiny weapons to terrorize the people in Donbass, gave them intel and diplomatic cover, built CIA bases and biolabs to test all sorts of stuff?

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 24 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

If random Ukranians deserve war for not ousting their nazi government, then all of us westerners deserve to be broken on the wheel.

[–] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

What. Are. You. Talking about? Nah... Of course we deserve to be wiped out. What are you, some sort of a tankie or what?

There's very little equivalence between the Palestinians and non-Nazi Ukrainians, I want to make it very, very clear. But... There are two kinda similar things to point out: 1) both are being sacrificed on the altar of US capitalism and Western imperialism (in very different ways, but still) and 2) the US can end the suffering in both cases with a snap of a finger (it's more complicated than that, I know - in theory at least).

Speaking of number 2 - we've seen massive anti-genocide protests in the West, something I'm very happy about. Why? I'd say because it's not easy to paint the genocide in Gaza in any different sort of way. Yet we don't see a lot of anti-war protests when it comes to ending military support for the Ukroreich, except for occasional meetings here and there, or dedicated peace activists storming Bernie "Zionist apologist" Sanders' office. But hey, let's primarily blame the proles of a puppet state and leave out this bit.

[–] darkcalling@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

More like if tomorrow China turned off the US power grid through hacking I'd say it was deserved and I have no sympathy. Or if tomorrow Russia bombed a major US military base and killed a bunch of civilians who serviced and supported it in carrying that out I'd shrug and laugh.

Are you one of those people who gets upset when someone says something like "America deserved 9/11"? Because the US deserves a lot of things, chickens coming home to roost.

So yes Ukraine needs to lose most of their power grid. Sucks but it's probably necessary to break them, to destroy their country, to bring their war machine to a halt and to get to the point of peace. They've tried asking nicely of the Ukrainian puppet regime to surrender, to come to terms, they tried negotiating for years, 8 years without fruit or anything but deliberate delaying tactics.

And I love how you bad faith people come here and put words in my mouth, say I'm suggesting targeting civilians. No I'm suggesting taking out the power grid, not bombing homes with people in them but taking out power generation as well as distribution. Yes that makes life a bit miserable. Yes that kills some people. So does keeping the power on and letting them use it to make weapons to kill Russians. If someone has to die, and it's clearly the case that that is a FACT. I'd rather it be a Ukrainian civilian than a Russian one. I'd rather neither die but I don't live in the world of rather, I live in the real world. And in the real world for all their problems Russians aren't supporting Nazism, historical revisionism and trying to carry out enforcement of the primary contradiction of this age which is US/NATO hegemony, they're trying to break it while Ukraine is trying to uphold it.

Pure idealism on display, boo-hoos and sobs. Like I said I don't care, a choice has been made and I choose the Russian lives, the Russian civilians, the Russian right to live in peace free from fear. Just like in a war between China and US I hope Americans are the ones who need more body bags. I'd rather American civilians get killed in a hypothetical war (of American aggression) between China and the US if it means fewer dead Chinese soldiers or civilians. I'm happy to say that and if you aren't then you're not serious.

[–] Sodium_nitride@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 months ago

Not only are your tactics ineffectual (the Russians would have already done them if they could stop the war quickly), but they are also sadistic (which is a big part of why they are ineffective).

Modern war between republics never boils down to just a show of pure force. War is politics. That is the reason why the US has such a poor track record despite technological superiority

[–] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

“America deserved 9/11”

Doesn't mean that everyone in the towers deserved to be blown up or crushed. Also - the more you kill, the more Amerika's got to show for their public to manufacture consent for the wars.

So yes Ukraine needs to lose most of their power grid

That's not the thing people criticized you for - I think this point is rather obvious to everyone (myself included), no one was disagreeing with it.

And I love how you bad faith people come here and put words in my mouth

I am pretty sure no one's been making bad faith arguments. It's more like someone's got backlash and instead of doing selfcrit decided to double down.

I’d rather it be a Ukrainian civilian than a Russian one. I’d rather neither die but I don’t live in the world of rather, I live in the real world

You are contradicting yourself. Is it the world of rather or not the world of rather?

Also - you've mentioned several times how it's all Ukrainian civilians' fault. THAT is a bad faith argument. You know, whatever fault there can be ascribed - western civilians are a zillion times more guilty, judging by that logic. Thing is - they'll get away with it scot-free, and we're already paying with our lives. Funny how that works.

[–] D61@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago (1 children)

When you attack civilians, it doesn’t stop the military from doing military stuff.

When you attack civilians it gives the military more justification to keep doing horrible things.

When you attack civilians it gives the politicians more justification to let the military to keep doing horrible things.

[–] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 17 points 2 months ago (1 children)

This. Thank you for pointing this out, comrade.

When you attack civilians, it makes those who are finally starting to open their fucking eyes, to doubt the Banderite propaganda to go "nah, they were right all along, Imma go ahead and give myself up to the grinder".

Say what you want about Putin or the military commanders, but it's clear they are conducting operations to make sure their losses are minimal. And sure, Western capitalist propaganda will still smear them into the ground with false-flag psyops and Bucha-style atrocity propaganda, however... There's no reason to give these fucks ammo, to do the job for them. The entire Global South is watching this - they are seeing Russia as the rational actor, or at least a lot more rational. Compare that to the West and their full-throttle support for Palestinian genocide.

[–] D61@hexbear.net 10 points 2 months ago

Yeah, I can understand the emotions behind, "well, if the civilian population doesn't rise up and engage in open warfare against their own militarized police and actual combat military forces that protect a government that is doing bad things so its okay to kill all the civilians," but the though is a really really shitty thing to think or advocate for.

Pretty sure the theory heads could quote somebody from the past about the ineffectual nature of "revolutionary terrorism".

[–] REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Back to their roots. Fortunately on the russian side are the units that crushed these freaks back in Bakhmut.

[–] AnarchoBolshevik@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 2 months ago

This is a very serious accusation. Unfortunately, I found one fatal flaw with it:

www.rt.com

Your report is now invalid.

I am sure that there is nothing to worry about in the Ukrainian army. I’m not saying that the Ukrainian army is perfect, maybe one or two soldiers have committed a couple atrocities, but nothing that’s a big deal. Everything is fine. Calm down and go back to your daily lives.

[–] rostselmasch@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 months ago

However, the document that has now been adopted stipulates that Ukraine will not recognize the jurisdiction of the Criminal Court for war crimes for seven years when it comes to Ukrainian citizens. This is due to the army's fears that its actions in the fight against Russian forces could in some cases be charged as war crimes.

As I commentwd in another post. They have a free pass now. Cosplay time is over. That's your morality of the west.

[+] raunz@mander.xyz -23 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Every accusation is a confession

[–] coolusername@lemmy.ml 31 points 2 months ago (1 children)

stop coopting language

[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago

I mean...yeah, Ukraine was alleging this stuff early on in the war and unsurprisingly they're enacting on Kursk what they wanted to do to civilians in Donbas.

[–] LeniX@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 2 months ago

Absolutely. When it comes to the US and the Ukronazis.

[–] AnarchoBolshevik@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 months ago

Welcome again to Lemmygrad. Judging from your comment history, I see that you have some expertise in computer hardware, diplomacy, formal logic, geoeconomics, geopolitics, investigative journalism, media literacy, military tactics, the Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, the German language, the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Russian Federation, and Ukraine.

We have few regulars interested in so many subjects. Have you been consulting capitalismindecay? What do you think of it?

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