this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2024
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[Dormant] Electric Vehicles

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Even with the new 100% tariff on electric vehicles imported from China, BYD would still have the cheapest EV in the US. According to a new report, BYD’s lowest-priced EV would still undercut all US automakers at under $25,000.

After discontinuing the production of vehicles powered entirely by internal combustion engines in March 2022, BYD has been at the forefront of the industry’s shift to EVs.

Honestly in my opinion it is time to remove all tariffs on EVs under 25k and let anyone who wants to fill that slot in. American car manufacturers refuse to fill the market need.

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[–] ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org 106 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (9 children)

Honestly in my opinion it is time to remove all tariffs on EVs under 25k and let anyone who wants to fill that slot in.

One essential thing bears repeating: it's not the manufacturer that bears the cost of tariffs, it's the customers. Or said another way, if BYD cars double in price in the US, it's American customers who will pay the difference.

A certain presidential candidate loves to beat that drum but consistently fails to mention that the immediate effect of new tariffs is making Americans poorer.

[–] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 32 points 2 months ago (3 children)

There are some situations where imports being cheaper is due to foreign government subsidies undercutting local production and tarrifs are the wat to level the field. Frequently this gets warped into protectionism, allowing local production to have a leg up while continuing their crappy business practices, like most US auto manufacturers.

In this case the 100% tariffs is mostly the latter. It was not a thought out rate based on any kind of logic, just an emotional overreaction.

We do not need someone in office proposing reactionary, emotionally based tax policies.

[–] Kaboom@reddthat.com 27 points 2 months ago (2 children)

foreign government subsidies undercutting local production and tarrifs are the wat to level the field.

Also, lack of labor, safety, and environmental regulations. Chinese companies literally own slaves, no worker can't compete with free. Combine that with safety and environmental, you get cheap manufacturing.

[–] mesamunefire@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

Dont forget spyware as well! Lots of that built in.

[–] Delta_V@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (3 children)

That exists in USA's supply chain too.

Prisoners are the most glaring omission from the Constitution's abolition of slavery.

Undocumented immigrants are exploited even harder than other working class people living in America, and that's the real reason that neither party will do more than give lip-service to securing the border, or even talk about going after employers who hire undocumented workers.

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[–] Habahnow@sh.itjust.works 24 points 2 months ago (8 children)

??? China has literally been subsidizing BYD to help it to beat out foreign manufactures and to make it competitive in foreign markets. So yeah, there may be some protectionism involved, but there is definitely an argument that China is unfairly subsidizing BYD, making it impossible for rival companies to compete.

https://electrek.co/2024/04/12/china-gave-byd-an-incredible-3-7-billion-to-win-the-ev-race/

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago (12 children)

And we've been subsidizing ours too. We just do it differently than straight up handing them money. (Although we've done that before too)

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[–] arin@lemmy.world 10 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Pretty sure other incentives have been implemented for other car companies like tax rebates. Let's not forget the fossil fuel industry being subsidized still...

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[–] Jollyllama@lemmy.world 56 points 2 months ago (7 children)

Give me an affordable glorified golf cart so I can zip around town and run errands and then plug it in at home and do it all again in 12 hours.

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[–] SendMePhotos@lemmy.world 38 points 2 months ago (6 children)

US cars wouldn't cost so much if the corporations would stop overloading the cars with features I don't want. Here's what I need: Car to go Car to charge

Here's what I want: Radio AC/heat Electric windows

The wants are not even requirements.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

A Bluetooth speaker set would be nice too. That's not very expensive. Nor is the tablet in the dashboard. You could get both for less than a thousand dollars.

The features really aren't the problem. They just refuse to stop price gouging.

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[–] Don_alForno@feddit.org 37 points 2 months ago (1 children)

it is time to remove all tariffs on EVs under 25k and let anyone who wants to fill that slot in.

How to force other car makers to build more reasonable EVs at more reasonable prices is an important question. But the answer isn't "Uyghur labor camps".

[–] el_abuelo@programming.dev 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Okay fair point. What about regular old prison labour?

[–] Mr_Blott@feddit.uk 10 points 2 months ago (5 children)

You mean prison slavery? That's the US, get on it lol

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[–] Bosht@lemmy.world 36 points 2 months ago (23 children)

Yeah, as with most things in the US currently, prices are artificially inflated. They're doing this because they're trying to keep up the facade that 'these are just the new prices cuz inflation' when it's painfully apparent that it's not. They're trying to pocket as much of our money as possible and they know if competition is introduced they'll be forced to cut into those sweet sweet greedflation profits. I'm honestly never going to buy another US made vehicle if I can help it. My next vehicle will more than likely be foreign electric, and seeing this post just solidifies I've made the right decision.

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[–] FleetingTit@feddit.org 27 points 2 months ago (12 children)

American (and european) car makers can't fill that market need due to higher labour costs and stricter environmental laws.

Also the fact that the chinese government heavily subsidizes electric auto makers skews the market in favour of the chinese manufacturers.

[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 14 points 2 months ago (1 children)

It's the Walmart business model. Move into a new area and undercut your competitors just long enough to put them out of business. Once this happens you have the market over a barrel and can charge however much you like.

I seriously don't understand how people keep falling for this rhetoric and claiming this is all about protecting US companies when there are only 3 US companies left and they barely makeup 1/3 of the US auto market.

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[–] ClanOfTheOcho@lemmy.world 25 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Are these cars capable of passing U.S. automotive safety rules? Or is this argument moot because they can't be legally used on U.S. roads?

[–] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 30 points 2 months ago

The Chinese are able to sell cars into the EU so I am sure they could come up with something they could sell here.

[–] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 26 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)
[–] SoJB@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

We talking about the same “rules” that allow regular Class D license holders to drive a 40 ft RV with no additional training? Or perhaps the same rules that allow Cybertrucks to even exist on public roads?

Americans love to talk shit about safety standards when they don’t even exist at home

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[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 23 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Canada is already set to implement a 100% tarrif while claiming it wants people to switch to EVs. Why are we making affordable EVs unaffordable if we want average people to make the change?

[–] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 36 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Car companies have had more than enough time to build these cars and they already have a $7500 or larger advantage they can use to compete with Chinese made cars. They refuse to make cars that will come in under 25K. I say fuck them.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They just increase the cost by that rebate too

American cars are priced by what someone will pay, so any rebate or tax incentive just raises the price

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[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 months ago

because the auto industry is a huge part of the American retail market and they're afraid this will give China a huge edge on taking over the global economy, which it totally will, but it is the fault of the USA for not supporting their domestic industries.

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[–] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 23 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Why did Ford dump all of the models that offered a variety of price points ?

Because they could afford to be profitable and not care about 90% of the US consumer body.

Same with GM and Dodge RAM. They quit making lots of cars to save money for themselves. And now the US has betrayed the US consumer again pushing a green agenda while maintaining OIL hegemony in vehicles for the masses.

Now we have fewer types of vehicles, lower inventory, higher prices, 10 year car loans, and restrictions on getting the green vehicles that we were encouraged to want. American Dream has become the American Delusion.

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

It's the same cycle we had from back in 2002, under the Bush Hummer tax cut. Government subsidized light trucks and made gasoline artificially cheap, so people went out and bought these enormous vehicles and dumped millions of gallons into them for power.

Then 2008 hits, gas prices go vertical, car loans go bust, and the Big 3 are out begging for bailouts. Obama delivers (while Mitt Romney signs his own death warrant in Michigan by telling Detroit to go bankrupt) and rides a popular wave of support for saving the American auto industry from itself. But he doesn't bother to do any kind of regulation or curb the consumption of fossil fuels, because that would make soccer moms still driving their 10 ton vehicles sad.

Then the bubble pops in 2020 thanks to COVID and everyone runs into receivership again and we've got to flood the zone with taxpayer bailout money.

But that's okay, because COVID actually gave us cheap gasoline again! So we get another era of cheap gasoline and big cars and a brand new automotive industry bubble.

Gee, I hope history doesn't repeat itself.

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[–] gnuplusmatt@reddthat.com 22 points 2 months ago (9 children)

I have a BYD Seal here in Australia. You yanks are missing out

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[–] Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip 22 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

American car manufacturers refuse to fill the market need.

keep in mind, at the around 15-25k price, you run into the problem Vinfast has when they introduced themselves to the U.S market. What would an informed buyer rather do: buy a cheap new vehicle or a used premium vehicle. Chevy* backed out of making yearly bolts because demand wasnt high enough, despite the 7500 rebate would bring it down to 22k

[–] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 32 points 2 months ago (15 children)

If there is no demand, then there is nothing to worry about. Remove the tariffs and let China offer 15k cars here in America.

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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago

The bolt was insanely popular. Chevy made a claim that wasn't backed by data and it turned out they were trying to phase it out for the new platform. It was so unpopular that they're bringing it back.

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[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 19 points 2 months ago (2 children)

American car manufacturers refuse to fill the market need.

That. American car companies - continuing an unbroken streak of greed, corruption, and environmental devastation - demand to have the same fate as the music industry: utter destruction. The pathetically ginormous “trucks” threatening everyone around them shall be their legacy.

Mismanagement, thy name is American automotive industry.

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[–] Zannsolo@lemmy.world 17 points 2 months ago (1 children)

As much as I want cheap EVs I trust china about as far as I can throw the country with access to all the data the could get from cars in this country.

[–] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 12 points 2 months ago (2 children)

They make almost everything you use. They have massive access already. Most of your current car electronics are made there.

[–] Zannsolo@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago (4 children)

Much easier to backdoor data when you make the entire system including the software.

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[–] KellysNokia@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago (6 children)

Fun fact. The ten most "American-made" cars of 2023 are:

Tesla Model Y
Tesla Model 3
Tesla Model X
Tesla Model S
Honda Passport
Volkswagen ID.4
Honda Odyssey
Acura MDX
Honda Ridgeline
Acura RDX

Hmmm, something seems to be missing... 🤔

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[–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

They're talking about making Chinese drones, including hobby drones, illegal. I'd be amazed if they did that while letting a compute node on wheels drive 15k miles yearly in America gathering data and phoning home.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 26 points 2 months ago (5 children)

Why are we ok with domestic manufacturers doing this though

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[–] C126@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Tariffs are a punishment for consumers looking for affordable products, designed to help government officials and their megacorp buddies avoid competition.

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[–] superkret@feddit.org 11 points 2 months ago (15 children)

Can someone explain to me the implications of China subsidizing a car, and the US putting tariffs on it?
Which country would benefit if I buy it?

[–] altima_neo@lemmy.zip 13 points 2 months ago

The Chinese subsidies artificially bring down the prices of their cars so that other companies can't compete with their prices. The point of the tariffs is to inflate the price of Chinese EVs to make them too expensive to undercut American competition.

The only people benefiting are American businesses and maybe their factory worker, but the American consumer just ends up paying more for everything.

[–] Skua@kbin.earth 10 points 2 months ago

Tariffs are essentially fees paid to government applying the tariff by the customer paying the tariff. So if you're American, you'd be paying the additional cost to the American government

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