this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2024
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My life is a parody (hexbear.net)
submitted 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) by mayo_cider@hexbear.net to c/chat@hexbear.net
 

I met a guy in a bar, and they asked me why the democrats lost (we don't live in the US)

I replied with something along the lines of "because they didn't condemn the genocide in Gaza" and they responded with "isn't that hypocritical? The left claims to be against antisemitism"

I tried to explain the usual antizionism isn't antisemitism, but before I finished they responded with "but we have to give the [antisemitic slur] something"

I had to leave for my turn on the karaoke, but after that they came up to me apologizing and explaining how they hate both sides

I don't want to live in a shitty web comic

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[–] Acute_Engles@hexbear.net 62 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Conversations like this are the norm and why i have a hard time believing anyone who says they changed someone's opinion on something. People tend to not have opinions or beliefs until they create them in the moment

[–] mayo_cider@hexbear.net 50 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, my goal with these random discussions is to normalize my viewpoint, there's no way I'm immediately changing theirs

[–] Acute_Engles@hexbear.net 28 points 4 days ago

Good outlook

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 20 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Would you like to elaborate on this?

[–] Acute_Engles@hexbear.net 45 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Pretty irresponsibly reductive on my part but i find that often times when you bring up a topic that someone thinks they should have an opinion on, they just repeat whatever thing made the most sense to them the last time they thought or heard about it.

Then, after bumbling around the conversation trying to make it seem like they have actually thought about the thing they're talking about, they reflect a little bit and realize they probably sounded like they cared more than they actually do. That's where the "i actually hate both sides" part comes in.

Most people just want to shoot the shit and will craft opinions out of thin air

[–] mayo_cider@hexbear.net 28 points 4 days ago

All this combined with internalized xenophobia

This guy doesn't know anything about the middle east or the us, but he feels compelled to have an opinion on it

When he feels like he messed up, his immediate thought is "I hated the wrong group"

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 17 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Are you sure that's really "crafting opinions out of thin air" like you say, or is that more just crafting public-facing opinions out of thin air? Because I'd think that someone saying whatever they think is socially appropriate in order to avoid confrontation, that that doesn't really preclude having genuine opinions, even if underdeveloped and unstable — it just means that their ideology sees the avoidance of social confrontation as the highest priority.

[–] Acute_Engles@hexbear.net 15 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I see what you're saying and i wish I had the same faith in the other adults in my life. I'm not ruling out the possibility that I'm being unfair but it's hard to imagine mike at work has thought about the middle East even one time in the last month

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 4 points 3 days ago

Yeah, you're probably right

[–] woodenghost@hexbear.net 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

And now the conversation with you is the last thing they heard about it. Maybe something will stick and plant a seed of doubt about the mainstream narrative. Even in conversations about topics that do not threaten hegemony, people do not usually change their minds immediate upon hearing new information. But people do change their minds all the time, just later in private and on their own terms.

The foremost problem with changing the mind of white western chauvinists really is racism which makes them unable to feel a normal amount of empathy. You explain about Palestinians suffering and they understand and believe you and it just does not trigger the normal human response of caring. So they seek explanations to justify their own failure as a human being to save face and imperial propaganda offers plenty. One countermeasure that just works and smashes through the lack of empathy is real human connection to affected people. But it's hard to implement as a general strategy.

The second big thing is instinctive fear to lose some of the material privileges they might have as a white liberal in the imperial core by going down the road of solidarity. The natural countermeasure would be raising working class solidarity and explain how their own struggles are interconnected.

Edit: One strategy, that has worked for me with white but leftist friends who are open minded and invested in our friendship is the following: After making clear, how much it matters to me and having a discussion, I cut the argument short and just give them homework. Ask them to just please read this theory. "Please just do this for me." Or to visit a local solidarity camp. It gives them time to change their minds in their own time. It worked on three people so far. Two of them said, they would never come to pro Palestine protest with me initially and later went multiple times. One even took night shifts at a camp.

Second edit: Actually I had to ask a friend to assign them the theory and answer questions, after they agreed, because I felt too triggered by their bullshit. So it wasn't easy or anything. And I feel lucky, that it worked multiple times. I was really scared to lose three good friends over this one after the other.

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 8 points 3 days ago

Yeah, I broadly agree. I would phrase it as outside of their hobbies, interests, and work a lot of people don't have a lot of general knowledge and don't have any strong feelings about things they do know.

[–] FALGSConaut@hexbear.net 33 points 3 days ago

The true imperial core moderate

[–] peeonyou@hexbear.net 33 points 3 days ago

wait wait wait, let me salvage this by saying what usually works in these types of situations -- "I HATE BOTH SIDES"

[–] RNAi@hexbear.net 14 points 3 days ago

You interacted with an average person. Also kopmala didn't lose because of it, sadly

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 18 points 4 days ago (2 children)
[–] goose@hexbear.net 14 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Hit em with the “anyway, here’s Wonderwall”

[–] mayo_cider@hexbear.net 12 points 4 days ago (1 children)
[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 9 points 4 days ago (1 children)
[–] mayo_cider@hexbear.net 13 points 4 days ago (1 children)
[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Frankly I hadn't heard of any song called "Summer Wine" before so that's why I asked

Edit: Listening to Nancy Sinatra's version now, it is a good song

[–] mayo_cider@hexbear.net 10 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Sorry, I'm too used to my local spots karaoke list and forgot to name the artist 😄

[–] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 14 points 4 days ago (1 children)

That was the wrong answer anyway, majority of Americans don't give a shit about Palestinians.

[–] Erika3sis@hexbear.net 22 points 4 days ago (3 children)

The deciding factor in the presidential election was really just inflation, wasn't it? Just a bunch of bozos thinking that the president has a big lever labeled "economy" and that if the economy does poorly under Team Blue that they should try Team Red instead, and then when the economy does poorly under Team Red they should try Team Blue again. Aiding and endorsing genocide certainly lost Harris a large number of votes, but it was not the single determining factor. This is at least one analysis I heard which made sense to me.

[–] TheDrink@hexbear.net 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I think this is the endpoint of any individualistic liberal democracy. Most people don't engage with politics most of the time, and historically the way that political movements got around this was by embedding themselves into the people's lives and giving them a lens through which to think of politics when they did. But in America our workplaces are thoroughly depoliticized, other groups that a person might belong to have been eviscerated, and the few political formations we have left at the smaller level (shit like HOAs and megachurches) were designed from the jump to be pretty much irredeemably fascist. So the average person has no lens through which to interpret politics, and just shoots their opinions from the hip while reacting to the most immediate material conditions impacting their life.

Anyway I expect the rest of the presidents in my lifetime to be one term wonders (even if they're nonconsecutive).

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 9 points 3 days ago

idk. Apparently the popular vote ended up being quite close so I'd venture to say there was no deciding factor and Killemall needed every one of the votes she set on fire.

Yeah it looks like the final call had Harris down by 2.5 million or so, 50% to 48.4%. So, any issue that alienated or discouraged people, even if it wasn't deciding for people, likely played a factor.

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 3 points 3 days ago

Too bad they're too ignorant to realize the economy does much more shit under republicans

[–] Gucci_Minh@hexbear.net 11 points 4 days ago (1 children)

This sounds aggressively German lmao

[–] Frank@hexbear.net 6 points 3 days ago

Yeah I'm going to do a little racism and say this sounds super fucking German.