this post was submitted on 13 Dec 2024
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59
How do Vietnamese people have such favorable views of the USA after what they did to them? (lemmygrad.ml)
submitted 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) by SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml to c/askchapo@hexbear.net
36 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/6484299

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2015/06/23/1-americas-global-image/

America’s image is mostly positive among the Asian nations polled. Particularly large majorities see the U.S. favorably in the Philippines (92%), South Korea (84%) and Vietnam (77%).

It's from 2015 but more recent polls have found similar data IIRC

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/comparing-global-views-of-the-united-states-and-china-during-the-trump-and-biden-administrations/

79% of people polled in Vietnam chose the US in the "Preferred alignment choice in U.S.-China rivalry" which is a different metric obviously but still points towards the same idea

Edit: According to Luna Oi, Pew Research Center is a neoliberal think tank that cannot be trusted on anything about Vietnam

https://youtu.be/hPCoDz_CPCc

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[–] Mardoniush@hexbear.net 43 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Others have mentioned that the data is misleading and the effects of time

But there's also the fact that they are communists. They look at the American people as separate from the ruling class.

Additionally they recognise the efforts of many Americans in stopping the war. And many have had positive experiences with individuals, both during and after the war.

None of this minimises the atrocities of the US state or the individual atrocities of US soldiers. But the Vietnamese people have risen from the war, and are used to making friends with old enemies like China.

[–] propter_hog@hexbear.net 19 points 5 days ago

Well said

[–] CredibleBattery@hexbear.net 43 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

never underestimate american Soft power

[–] Frogmanfromlake@hexbear.net 26 points 5 days ago

This right here. The same reason countries like the Philippines and Taiwan have a hatred of China for “historical reasons” while adoring Japan.

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 35 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

The basic answer is that everyone just likes America. I’m not kidding.

Mao had been open to allying with either the US or the USSR, and even leaning towards the US. Stalin wasn’t playing ball when Mao went to Moscow to demand the unequal treaty signed with the KMT to be replaced, until Truman’s State Department released a memorandum in January 1950 that the US would be ready to give up on supporting Taiwan, after which he immediately signed an alliance with China.

Fidel had wanted to keep a friendly relationship with the US as soon as Cuba had its independence, until he was turned away by the Americans and only then did he turned to the USSR.

This was how Ho Chi Minh opened Vietnam’s Declaration of Independence given on August 17, 1945:

“‘All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.’

This immortal statement was made in the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense, this means: All the peoples on the earth are equal from birth, all the peoples have a right to live, to be happy and free.”

America has always been everyone’s first choice until they inevitably had their hearts broken by America, and only then did they look to the Soviet Union, their spare tire. But even then, as soon as America showed some signs of wanting to reconcile, they’d be ready to forget about the years of abuse and get back with the old flame. Not joking, or am I?

[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 13 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Reminds me of an old video I saw of Putin saying he'd hoped Russia could be considered a Western country as well one day; basically it's a lot of people who are in deep denial of what they're dealing with.

Honestly consider places like Iran or Gaza/West bank; they make deals with the US thinking America is earnest only to be stabbed in the back, for their willingness to cooperate to be used as a weapon against them (for example America convincing Palestinians not to insist on the UN recognizing Palestine as a member and to just accept observer status for the time being). Heck, you even have recently with America convincing Western Europe to stop buying Russian oil and to buy American only to hike up the price.

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 8 points 5 days ago

I also think the US played a huge role in liberation by fighting Nazis and Imperial Japan during WWII so they gained quite a bit of reputation. Still, the Cold War was when the USSR gained prominence until its collapse, after which it has been an open season for neoliberalism. There is simply no alternative to it at the moment.

[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

A lot of them were absolute bastards and hypocrites but the founding fathers of the USA did wax quite poetic about freedom and if nothing else I'm glad it got said or written down so it could inspire others.

Thomas Paine was cool, though.

[–] hexbee@hexbear.net 9 points 5 days ago

Except it was already written down and lived for hundreds of years by the indigenous people of Turtle Island which the "USA" was "inspired by" when creating their own slave trader nation's constitution.

[–] digdilem@lemmy.ml 6 points 5 days ago

The basic answer is that everyone just likes America. I’m not kidding.

Or they pretend to, because it's the biggest kid [1] in the playground.

[1] by PwrIndx

[–] thethirdgracchi@hexbear.net 31 points 5 days ago

I mean at least part of this is that they won. They beat the Americans.

[–] CyborgMarx@hexbear.net 30 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Brookings and Pew Research are known data fabricators, 80% of Vietnamese people do not hold pro-US foreign policy/pro US neoliberal world order opinions

[–] SovietReporter@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I got this source from Luna Oi on how they asked misleading questions that were totally different from the reported data

https://youtu.be/hPCoDz_CPCc

Do you have another source to add to my archive?

[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 2 points 5 days ago

I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:

[–] kittin@hexbear.net 27 points 5 days ago

The USA is basically the wealthiest country on the planet with a high standard of living for many, and the public image of the USA that gets projected is really of the middle class or wealthy elites. That’s a lifestyle to be envious of and even if it’s not really reality for even most Americans that’s still basically the benchmark lifestyle that many people aspire to all over the world.

[–] SevenSkalls@hexbear.net 25 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I've always wondered this about the Philippines, too. They love the US, they love MacArthur and his "I will return" line, even though it was a US colony forever and I'm pretty sure was brutally suppressed with hundreds of thousands killed before.

[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 18 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Most countries don't prioritize keeping the memory of such barbarity alive; America is such a strange beast that most people probably think it's safe to just forget what kind of country we are.

[–] AlsaceClamato@hexbear.net 4 points 5 days ago

forget what kind of country we are.

rule #1 of the based order

[–] HomoSexualTransStalinist@hexbear.net 22 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Tbh most people dont really hold much intergenerational resentment against other countries unless that country's still actively being hostile against them or like there's an actual propaganda apparatus encouraging it. In the case of vietnam, regardless of americas past atrocities against them, what they currently are to them is a rich trading partner that buys a load of their exports and gives their government favourable treatment to persuade it away from aligning closer with china.

[–] HomoSexualTransStalinist@hexbear.net 15 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I have a couple of vietnamese friends with family still in vietnam and according to them its mainly only older Vietnamese people who hold actual grudges against americans

[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 17 points 5 days ago

I've heard the same thing as well, that it was the older generation that still remember and are worried the younger generation will forget. I don't blame them for it in the slightest; what was done to them was absolutely horrifying. The winter soldier testimony to congress contained some of the most horrific acts of barbarity I'd ever heard, only overshadowing what happened at Nanjing because it happened to far more people.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 25 points 5 days ago

As you have learned, it's just cope from Burgerlanders, in this case purposely misleading polls. And speaking of Luna, she has volunteered for an org in Vietnam that specializes in taking care of victims and descendants of victims of Agent Orange. Yep, I'm sure all of those people have swell opinions of the US.

[–] Infamousblt@hexbear.net 23 points 5 days ago

Propaganda is a hell of a drug

[–] digdilem@lemmy.ml 6 points 5 days ago (3 children)

People forgive.

Consider that Germany is a very welcome and integrated country within Europe and the wider world. It's only the bigots and racists that are still hostile towards them.

[–] SorosFootSoldier@hexbear.net 28 points 5 days ago

I'm racist against German I guess.

[–] lil_tank@hexbear.net 14 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Bigots and racists love Germany wtf are you talking about

[–] Lemister@hexbear.net 5 points 5 days ago

Depends on the country. I doubt like British ghouls do giving that they cosplay living under the blitz.

[–] Evilsandwichman@hexbear.net 9 points 5 days ago (2 children)

and the wider world

I'm not sure that's true; I recall a few African countries that were pretty vocally unhappy with Germany and unhappy about it to the faces of the politicians while they were in the room. A lot of people don't like Germany for their behavior today. Additionally the fact that nowhere near enough Nazis made love to a noose and instead got government positions after the war is the reason a lot of people wisely keep an eye on them. I still recall when there were a series of murders of Turkish people in Germany everybody and their dog were quick to say it was just Turkish people killing each other, and even the news was mocking the murders by calling them the 'doner murders', and people were bizarrely shocked that it turned out to just be your average Germans who were murdering Turkish people, and the police not only had a suspicion it was just Germans but had been harassing the families of the murdered. Unsurprisingly the people who are 'bigoted' or 'racist' to Germans don't tend to be racist to non-white people; instead the people who praise Germany tend to not have the best relation to non-white countries.

[–] 2Password2Remember@hexbear.net 2 points 5 days ago

the news was mocking the murders by calling them the 'doner murders'

jesus christ. yet another reason to hate the adolfs

Death to America

[–] digdilem@lemmy.ml 2 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

You raise some good points, and of course there are few universal truths especially if it descends to the individual. No country is without its haters. Certainly my Uncle, who only visited Germany from a height of 20,000 feet whilst dropping bombs on it, never ever forgave them and was always incredibly rude if we ever met any. He had more reason than most perhaps, as did many during the second world war, and you can't force someone to forgive. I'm British, and many in the world don't like us much, and with some reason.

But considering the global hatred against Germany 80 years, I still maintain that most people accept that things are different today, as do the Vietnamese against America, and perhaps against Russia who used them for the proxy war. Perception's not fixed, of course. Global views towards Russia have shifted dramatically within two short years.

But I chose my racists phrase carefully. If someone hates someone for their country, that is the very definition of racism. "Racism is prejudice or hostility towards a person's race, colour, language, nationality, or national or ethnic origin." I don't think it's possible to argue against that someone's racist in that situation.

[–] Tomorrow_Farewell@hexbear.net 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I still maintain that most people accept that things are different today

Notably, things aren't different, except for Germany going back to committing atrocities outside of Europe.

as do the Vietnamese against America, and perhaps against Russia who used them for the proxy war

This is hilarious. The USSR literally helped Vietnam (and many other countries) in their war for liberation against you. By your logic, every struggle against your colonialism is a 'proxy war'.

Global views towards Russia have shifted dramatically within two short years

Also notably not because westerners care about invasions.

Also, whose views outside of the European genocidal powers changed on the matter?

[–] digdilem@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

The USSR literally helped Vietnam (and many other countries) in their war for liberation against you.

Against me? I think you're assuming incorrectly.

[–] Tomorrow_Farewell@hexbear.net 0 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Against me?

Against you, plural. Given that you are trying to whitewash the gang of colonial metropoles that is NATO, you, singular, should be included.

Or do you need to be reminded of your actions in Asia, Africa, and the Americas?

[–] digdilem@lemmy.ml 1 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Yep, you're a loon.

[–] Tomorrow_Farewell@hexbear.net 1 points 5 days ago

It's amazing how much people like you just up and deny the last few centuries worth of history of colonialism and slavery. I wonder if you know how states like Pissrael and the US came about, or what 'Lebensraum' was, or who owned India in the early 20th century, etc., or if you are just playing dumb?

[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 2 points 5 days ago

I found a YouTube link in your post. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy: