this post was submitted on 16 Oct 2023
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Autism

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I like this approach. "funny meme" aside, I think it is a good way of showing how much a certain language can affect how other people think and feel about a subject. Just read it THAT way and "being neurotypical" suddenly sounds like a disorder that isn't fully compatible with the public, doesn't it?

We live in a world that isn't exactly kind to people on the spectrum. It is loud, flashy, hectic, overwhelming, unrewarding but you're still expected to work like a cog in a machine, despite having fewer and fewer places where you'd actually "fit in" without grinding gears, and whenever there is some sort of public talk about that topic, it always, always sounds like the affected person is the problem and personally responsible for fixing themselves, when a no small part of "not fitting in" is due to society itself. Maybe a change in language is due to remove that stigma.

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[–] CarlsIII@kbin.social 68 points 1 year ago (33 children)

You read into phrases past their actual meanings

Instead of saying what you think, you expect others to infer it based on subjective social rules

I see these as legitimately bad things that people should not do. The fact that society considers this normal is horrible!

[–] BottleOfAlkahest@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think of it as a dialect difference. Allistic people aren't "not saying what they think" they are saying exactly what they think. That combination of words just has a specific meaning to other Allistic people outside of their Webster definition. It's gibberish/meaningless if you speak a different dialect though.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

What people on the spectrum may not understand is that language is more than just the exchanging of raw information. It's culture, it's artistic, and it's a way to communicate intangible feelings and emotions.

[–] carbon_based@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Like other commenters, I also think that most neurodivergent people understand this very well. Their problem arises where they understand it even much further, like seeing the implications of such normalities. For example, that this must be one of the sources of so many misunderstandings between different cultures (and subcultures!). I can not just assume that everyone I meet speaks the same social language that I grew up in.

And is it not rude to assume that everyone's mind works in the same way ... or that others would camouflage in a die-cut way as someone they are not truely; is it not kind of intellectually flat to assume self-similarity, given that this is so obviously not the case -- I mean divergent or not, everyone is just so engraved by their past experience that we have no true idea what mental process is going on inside another person unless we get to know them more closely.

e: or put in different words, what to do if the intangible feelings and emotions communicated by someone just don't match their verbal message? Or worse, what to do when we cearly see someones cognitive dissonance but we are expected to somehow follow that (it's an illness and following through would be self-denial)?

May read: The Double Empathy Problem;
more on affective vs. cognitive empathy: Lost in Translation: The Social Language Theory of Neurodivergence (part 1); (part 2)

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[–] blanketswithsmallpox@lemmy.world 34 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Points 2 and 5 are waaaay off but the rest are pretty funny.

Point 2 is literally the definition of ND folk who get ankle deep in a new hobby then abandon it when their interest passes.

Point 5... I'd wager the vast majority of ND people blow at math. They also absolutely suck at seeing patterns you aren't hyper focusing on lol. It's literally baked into the diagnoses of ADHD comorbidities.

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[–] AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space 28 points 1 year ago (3 children)

“Your interests are shallow” → “You aren’t interested in things for their intrinsic use value, but for their exchange value in forming social bonds with other neurotypicals who have imprinted on the same token (TV show, political party, sports team, etc.) Talking about these interests is not primarily an exchange of information, but rather a grooming behaviour, like chimpanzees picking lice out of each other’s coats, only done with language “

[–] funbreaker@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 year ago

Stop, stop! they're already dead!

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[–] Enkrod@feddit.de 27 points 1 year ago

Every time you avoid small talk you get a lovely sticker

Germans: I have so many stickers!

Finns: crushed by weight of stickers, nobody calling for help

[–] Lizardking27@lemmy.world 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I mean yeah if I described autism using a bunch of statements that absolutely do not define autism, then it would sound dumb and bad. OP is acting like this is a list of neurotypical behaviors when it's actually just an inverted list of neurodivergent behaviors. Neurotypicality is not the reciprocal of neurodivergence.

[–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It literally is though. How would you define "neurodivergence" if not "everything which is not neurotypical"?

[–] Lizardking27@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (7 children)

"Divergent" does not equal "opposite".

A turtle is different than a lizard, the two lineages "diverged" evolutionarily at some point. I could describe a lizard as a scaled, heterothermic, terrestrial organism. If I describe something as a scale-less, homeothermic, non-terrestrial organism, I'm not describing a turtle, I'm just describing a "non-lizard". Don't confuse "neurodivergent" with "anti-neurotypical", they're not the same thing.

By your logic, for a person to be considered "neurodivergent" they would have to be completely 100% unlike a neurotypical person in every single way, which is simply not the case.

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[–] dbilitated@aussie.zone 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

wait the number pattern thing is autism? I'm sorry, I have ADHD and the ADHD doctor also told me I'm probably on the spectrum. wow I love number pattern stuff though, I didn't know it was associated.

I got 81 as a table number the other day and I was stoked because it's 3^4. on reflection the doctor was probably right.

[–] dangblingus@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

ADHD and autism are commonly comorbid.

[–] Restaldt@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Got any strong opinions on trains or planes

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[–] eatthecake@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I'm beginning to get the impression that people with autism reaaaally don't like people witbout autism.

[–] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago

I'm married to one. They don't dislike people without autism. They just don't like the social norms and expectations that cause them harm.

This is a venting post. I don't think anyone is interested in harming non autistic people.

[–] gmtom@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hey, I love neurotypicals, they're great, hell one of my freinds younger brother has neurotypicalism and he's such a quirky lil goofball but he can actually behave himself most of the time too, we get along really well.

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[–] randomdeadguy@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

There may be a sore spot after centuries of dehumanizing abuse.

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[–] Deestan@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago
[–] feedum_sneedson@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

Allistic, weird.

[–] CarlsIII@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago

Also I’m pretty sure this would have been an issue for many neurotypicals too, since the info wasnt communicated properly.

Yeah, that’s usually my first thought when I misunderstand someone; that they just didn’t convey the information in a way that is understandable. I just feel like this has happened so often that it must have something to do with me.

[–] Deestan@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

Neurotypicals are an important part of a full and inclusive society, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't spend resources looking for a cure, or look into causes and ways to prevent it.

[–] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Some of those points apply tho other not-neurotypicals.

[–] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

True. I think the larger point is that we have to be careful what social norms we adopt as a society to make sure we aren't leaving a large group of people out.

I see this post as just venting and trying on a new perspective.

One of my exes is autistic and also had dyscalcula. Took me a while to accept that she will never enjoy math like I do. It was depressing.

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