this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2024
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[–] Lyudmila@hexbear.net 39 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

The campaign strategy is a method of using the electoral hubbub for advertising that literally opens doors and gets politically unengaged people to think about politics. It's been pretty successful in peeling potential new members off of electoralism. They've basically doubled their membership as a direct result of the 2024 campaign.

Knocking a door or handing out a flyer for a campaign with reasonable goals most people support is going to be a much more effective strategy than deploying a pop-up ad on the web or walking up to someone and saying "Do you have a minute to talk about our Lord and Savior, Josef Stalin?" which is the only thing average Americans will hear if you start trying to talk about politics outside of the educationally designated be all and end all of politics that is electoralism.

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 23 points 6 months ago (1 children)

This is exactly how I understand the strategy as non member. People are primed to talk politics around the election cycle even if they are "not into politics". Its inescapable. I didn't know that about their membership growth, but I can believe it.

[–] Lyudmila@hexbear.net 14 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I don't think they've officially announced membership growth figures yet, but every local party I'm aware of has at least as many new people in their onboarding as they have existing members, plus more people wanting to join. All of those new interested people are there specifically because of the electoral campaign.

[–] jack@hexbear.net 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

every local party I'm aware of has at least as many new people in their onboarding as they have existing members

Yeah this is basically accurate across the country. There also many small-medium cities poises to get a branch for the first time.

[–] Thorngraff_Ironbeard@hexbear.net 29 points 6 months ago (13 children)

One issue I see with this logic is it doesn't factor in the value of promoting PSL and it's ideals. Of course their direct action is important but the people who are going to Palestine protest or Union solidarity actions or whatever aren't the majority of Americans, even if a majority agree with those things (once you explain it using non scary commie words). The vast majority of Americans are not aware of politics other than voting Democrat or Republican every 2/4 years based almost entirely on IdPol. During a campaign PSL is showing that an alternative exist away from the ballot box as well.

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 17 points 6 months ago (1 children)

How? How do the workers see the PSL campaign? They aren't in any debates, they aren't mentioned on any news. Barring a volunteer literally showing up to your house and knocking, you would have no idea they even exist. For millions of dollars over decades of campaigns, the PSL is still virtually unknown to anyone except people who are already radicalized.

[–] Thorngraff_Ironbeard@hexbear.net 18 points 6 months ago (1 children)

They literally do knock on people's doors. People in my rural MAGAland county voted for them. Their membership is steadily growing. I don't know what else to say.

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 13 points 6 months ago

Right, that's what I said. The only way they reach people is by door knocking and meeting people personally to tell them about a presidential campaign that has no intention of winning. The campaign otherwise doesn't get to most people.

So if the solution to growing PSL membership is just knocking on doors and talking to people, why not have an organizing project that actually impacts the person you are talking to instead of one that will immediately be disregarded by 99% of the people you talk to? If you have to go knock on every door anyway, it seems like offering something of substance is a better way to get people on your side.

Getting a few fringe people in your county to vote for the campaign that won't win is something I guess, but how does that translate into those same people organizing locally to do anything? Membership growth doesn't really mean anything, DSA is huge and has actually got people elected all across the country, but having large paper membership of an org with a bad strategy and bad use of funds isn't compelling.

I don't expect you or anyone else here to really have an answer or anything, no pressure to say more if you don't know what else to say.

In the end, these are the strategies being pursued and they are a part of the moment, but I can't imagine why PSL rank and file members would be putting so much into an organization with these kind of strategies unless their education about socialism came directly from PSL. A bunch of newly radicalized people getting into politics through a specific org end up just mindlessly agreeing with that org's strategies because that's what they were told to think. Referencing Lenin's position on running candidates in parliamentary elections in Russia a century ago is not an analysis to base organizing strategy off of, and no one has been able to explain any other reasoning for PSL to do these campaigns other than "it is what the leadership who has been in power since the beginning says to do," which to me is a pretty glaring issue that PSL members will try and bully you about for bringing up.

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 11 points 6 months ago

Exactly this.

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[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 23 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Can you describe what flaw you see with this analysis? Do you think spending millions on an electoral campaign is a good use of dues? A better use of millions of dollars than some other project?

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (7 children)

The flaw is thinking it was ever about winning an election, and not about using the election as a vehicle for propaganda. If the money converts into expanded party membership and the building of their mass movement, then it's well spent.

But I won't speak for them, from there 2020 announcement:

The PSL does not believe that the solution to the systemic problems facing the working class will come through the electoral route. The PSL is a revolutionary Marxist party in the United States that struggles for socialism. We want a revolution; and, we work hard to make it happen.

[...]

The PSL’s campaigns are meant to inspire more working-class organizing, agitation, and revolutionary consciousness. We take the ideas of socialism—a better, more just society; the way forward for humanity—to the workers and poor people in the United States. The PSL’s campaign has opened a much-needed avenue for workers to wage political combat against the capitalist establishment and their corrupt representatives.

From their 2024 announcement:

Our campaign is fighting not simply on “issues” but on the very issue of the type of organization we need to win. We are comparing and contrasting our ideas with the major capitalist parties, but also comparing and contrasting our organization strategy to that of other progressive currents. We need socialism to solve the ills of capitalism, and we need a revolutionary party to establish socialism. We are running to explain why both things must happen if we want a better future

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[–] AmarkuntheGatherer@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

Does anyone have any thoughts about what the PSL should be doing? I'm not usian, so I have limited info. I think since the usian public implicitly upholds liberal democracy and its elections, it makes sense for them to participate, but clearly it's not very effective.

Also, the democrats spent $2B for 75M votes, meaning they purchased their votes at ~27 dollars. Even with this uncharitable reading, PSL were much thriftier with their donations.

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 36 points 6 months ago (1 children)

What their doing its fine, since they view the elections as a vehicle for propaganda.

[–] Llituro@hexbear.net 23 points 6 months ago (14 children)

exactly, they don't have delusions of victory or cooperation from within a coalition. they just understand that like half of amerikkkans only pay attention once every 4 years so they've got a good opportunity for agitprop

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[–] SpiderFarmer@hexbear.net 21 points 6 months ago

PSL should have instead spent 2 billion dollars, then they would have won like the Dems.

[–] SevenSkalls@hexbear.net 20 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I do have to say that what a lot of people don't understand is that a lot of people in this country, I'd say the majority, do not pay attention to politics until major election years. They literally try to avoid it, including any discussions about it, and are scared of it making things awkward or weird. They avoid people handing them flyers in the street, the word union sounds scary and the word organizing or meetings sound exhausting, they make fun of overly political people talking to them, and they don't want to be fired by association for even talking to someone related to it. Outside of an election year where they're looking for information on who to vote for, they'll shut the door in your face for talking to them.

Running for office gives an avenue to access people who become amenable to talking and thinking about politics during the election years. During that time, people are thinking of who they want to vote for. Most people know there's issues in our system and hate both parties, but don't know what the alternatives would be. I know our local PSL chapter has basically doubled in people attending the last couple meetings since the election. Without a reason, such as political campaign, a lot of people will avoid these interactions. I doubt they'd be effective if they ran ads saying don't vote for anyone, come to our local meetings or something.

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I think that there is merit to this argument if you are talking local politics, but even still I have doubts that this is more effective than dozens of other programs. Tenant organizing, labor organizing, food distributions, school supply drives, tutoring programs- there are so many things where you are actually impacting people in a way that builds sincere, strong relationships that can be mobilized to do more than just show up to vote every four years. With the amount of money and labor hours PSL throws into campaigns, resources that most colonized groups will never have in their organizing work, it is really wild to me that people are out here defending what is essentially a PR stunt. You would expect there to be some other call to action beyond donating money and voting once.

I have hope for PSL anyway, there's not much else going on in the US outside of hyper local groups, but these contradictions are certainly there and no one from PSL seems to want to acknowledge them.

[–] Comrade_Mushroom@hexbear.net 19 points 6 months ago (2 children)

Unexpected struggle session thread!

As a rule I personally don't bother criticizing anyone making an effort to spread socialist / anti-imperialist ideas, that shit's hindered and suppressed enough already.

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 13 points 6 months ago

I have weaved a tangled web with this one! Very unexpected haha.

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[–] ThereRisesARedStar@hexbear.net 14 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

My PSL local showed up for 2 weeks before the election and didn't know how to talk to voters at a public event DSA was tabling weekly at. (So twice before the election, and they stopped coming when it was over) It made it a lot harder to actually have conversations with folks because they were already turned off.

I'll be real, if anyone is trying to run a 3rd party presidential candidate I immediately assume they're not worth taking seriously. I'd rather they just talk about their politics directly or through other campaigns rather than the presidential shit, it is an immediate red flag.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 14 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, I don't see how this is dunk worthy. Assuming the numbers are accurate, that's $344k flushed down the drain for what exactly? How many homeless people did that $344k feed? Or building and maintaining community gardens? Or money that could've been given to Palestinian orgs? Where's the deliverables? And don't say awareness because if the party cared that much about awareness, they literally could just drop $100k at streamers' lap like Hasan to shill for the party or bought a bunch of ads. This $344k is essentially just a marketing campaign for the party if we're being honest.

This is why electoralism is a dead end in the US. You have to waste an obscene amount of money only to lose because you'll never outspend your opponents. And as for "well, we're participating in the electoral process to show how the electoral process is a sham," the majority of USians already don't vote. They already know it's a sham, and they're just there begging for the right people to explain to them why it's a sham. The most extreme case is Indigenous people. 99%, yes that's right, 99% rightfully saw the presidential election as the sham election that it was and refuse to humiliate themselves by going through the motions to legitimize the illegitimate settler colonial entity. PSL fielding candidates is already pointless to the 99% of Indigenous people who tune out of the election and to the 1% who are an assortment of compradors and mentally colonized individuals who humiliate themselves by licking the boots of the two parties.

[–] jack@hexbear.net 11 points 6 months ago

They already know it's a sham, and they're just there begging for the right people to explain to them why it's a sham.

That's exactly what the campaign aimed to achieve.

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