this post was submitted on 31 Mar 2025
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    Linux is too hard (lemmy.blahaj.zone)
    submitted 1 day ago by Cassa@lemmy.blahaj.zone to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
    242 comments fedilink hide all child comments
     

    The indoctrination of windows is extreme. Windows is just as hard as linux, harder even with all the layers of obscurity.

    And yet... linux is hard, and users decry RTFM as "not growing the userbase"

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    [–] Default_Defect@midwest.social 5 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

    RTFM is great when it covers the problem you're having, but I've seen multiple times in various forums, when the problem isn't covered by the manual or the solution isn't immediately obvious, the user is just ignored entirely. Some people have a really weird "linux doesn't have any issues, its the user's fault" attitude.

    [–] gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 hours ago

    Last year I got told to RTFM and was linked to a documentation page that said

    STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION

    Which was very helpful

    [–] Morph9@lemmy.zip 11 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

    People don't have the time/will to research alternatives, that's why most of us follow trends. It's the old mantra "if is good enough for him...", and honestly, i don't feel to blame anyone. Computers by now are a necessary tool and people want an easy "switch an play" solution to use it.

    [–] SuperSaiyanSwag@lemmy.zip 25 points 20 hours ago (4 children)

    I was on a reddit thread the other day which was about Microsoft ending the support for Windows 10. Naturally, I thought people would be boasting about Linux in that thread, but nope, people just want to keep using windows 10 or want Steam to release SteamOS. This was the PC Gaming sub too.

    [–] cactopuses@lemm.ee 1 points 9 minutes ago

    Years ago this is exactly what happened with Windows XP. I still see the odd one hanging around somehow. I suspect this will be very similar.

    [–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 10 points 17 hours ago (2 children)

    I finally switched to Linux, while Linux itself is just as easy to use as Windows, actually installing Linux can be a nightmare. When setup works properly its no harder than windows, the other 95% of the time its about chasing down an easily solved problem but you have to figure out which easily solved problem it is.

    [–] And009@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 9 hours ago

    You described installing old windows, before update took care of drivers.

    [–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 7 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (2 children)

    I install Linux on many machines each year, and I can't even remember the last time I had a problematic installation. Your experience sounds quite unusual. Are you using some obscure distro?

    [–] bier@feddit.nl 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

    I had the same experience until i bought an HP (Omen) gaming laptop a couple of years ago. Even regular Ubuntu didn't boot from USB drive. I had to mess with some kernel parameters (ACPI or something) to even boot it. Unfortunately sometimes you have some hardware or weird bios that just doesn't work. Never had this with any other laptop after

    [–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 hours ago

    This may be due to manufacturers locking their machines down with Secure Boot and only installing the keys that allow it to boot Windows. It's not something that could be fixed by the makers of the Linux install disk. They'd need to persuade the hardware manufacturer to preinstall their key.

    [–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

    Mint Cinnamon. It turned out just to be switching the name of a file on the boot media but it took a long time to work through other issues to get there.

    [–] floppybutton@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

    I love Mint. It's still my favorite Debian-rooted distro, even though I moved on from it more than a decade ago. But their refusal to adapt their install image to newbie-proof it frustrates me so much. I can't think of another mainline distro that's given me any problems in creating install media or installing, and that makes it impossible for me to recommended Mint to anyone who won't have me over their shoulder during the install process.

    I commend you for sticking to it and figuring out what the issue and fix were. 90% of users would have given up, reinstalled Windows, and went on Reddit to complain about how shitty Linux is.

    [–] CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

    I mean I did complain on lemmy about how annoying it was a few times, its a shame too because this problem turned out to be super simple and potentially super common, it would just take a couple of lines being changed on the official setup guide to resolve it... actually come to think of it since its just renaming a file all it would take is having 2 copies of that file in the image with both names since only one is ever going to be used at a time anyway.

    [–] lorty@lemmy.ml 14 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

    I mean if people move to steamOS how is that not a win?

    [–] SuperSaiyanSwag@lemmy.zip 9 points 19 hours ago

    That is a win. I was just surprised to not see anyone just say any of the existing distros, you know, multiple solutions that already exist.

    [–] drinkwaterkin@lemm.ee 6 points 18 hours ago

    Strange, I was also on a thread about ending support, and I found (and upvoted) tons of comments about switching to Linux. Must have been from different communities.

    [–] inbeesee@lemmy.world 24 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

    The work windows did to make early windows intuitive really paid off. I was able to figure a lot out as a kid so I could play snake and minesweeper etc. Leaning into that will onboard new users, and that's why mint is so successful

    [–] manicdave@feddit.uk 4 points 20 hours ago

    Random fact: The guy that did the hook a Macklemore's thrift shop was partially responsible for that.

    [–] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 21 points 21 hours ago (5 children)

    Windows is not as hard as Linux. You're just being silly at this point. I'm not saying Windows is better, but it is engineered from the ground up to accommodate the lowest common denominator.

    Case in point, installing a program on Windows? Double click the exe and you're done. On Linux? It can be that simple but usually is much more involved.

    [–] NightmareQueenJune@lemmy.world 3 points 5 hours ago

    Yes. After using Linux for servers and lower end machines I switched to mint on my main desktop a week ago. And while I'm quite pleased, it was not a seamless experience. I had to use a script that fixes my Bluetooth headset that connected but wasn't showing up as an audio device when reconnecting, and apt sometimes having very out of date packages that just don't work anymore. I love Linux but i really find it frustrating that many Linux users just seem a bit out of touch, don't see that even some basics sometimes need weird fixes and that windows is just better at working out of the box. I really want Linux to get there but tbh i don't see that happening in the near future.

    [–] stonedtemplepilot@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 45 minutes ago) (1 children)

    Honestly after using Linux for a while I greatly prefer to just enter one command in my terminal to install something like a CPU monitoring tool or a disk space analyzer. All in all I don't think Linux is any harder vs windows, it's just different and most people are used to working with Windows so Linux is "hard". Like if there's an issue with a program you just run it from terminal and it'll tell you exactly what's wrong usually, whereas on Windows I have to google these obscure error logs from eventvwr.

    [–] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 3 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

    The fact that you're capable of using a terminal or Googling error logs puts you in the top 10% of computer users. You do not understand just how dumb the average person is.

    [–] stonedtemplepilot@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 55 minutes ago) (1 children)

    Yes you're right, I realize all too well as I work in tech support, I just find that on a technical level that both are just as "hard" each with their own peculiarities.

    If you allow me a random question; I'm new to Lemmy and made my account in lemmy.world but I can only see the context of our discussion in lemm.ee, is this expected? What I mean is the "show context" button isn't working for me except when I go to the source of your comment here : https://lemm.ee/comment/19375854

    EDIT : I think it was a language setting thing which I've reverted back to "undetermined" after making that first comment. Like I can't even find that comment back on my own profile but I can find this one perfectly fine. Sorry I'm new to this lol.

    [–] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 2 points 54 minutes ago (1 children)

    Lemmy.world has a lot of censorship from what I understand. Maybe it's related to that?

    On the other hand half the users I interact with on EE are Chinese propaganda promoters so it's a trade off.

    [–] stonedtemplepilot@lemmy.world 1 points 42 minutes ago* (last edited 39 minutes ago)

    I've managed to fix it. I had to set my language to the same as when I made my initial comment to you, then I could actually find it and edited that one as language "undertermined". Then changed my profile language back to "undetermined" and everything looks ok now. It's now all showing up in lemmy.world for me with full context. I guess lemmy.world is more strict about this type of stuff vs lemm.ee

    [–] hector@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 hours ago

    That's true! I just remember helping my troubleshoot his issues recently and it was a nightmare going into the registry and editing stuff, the UX is so bad!

    I love when Linux gets complex because it makes sense. When Windows gets complex with Powershell, or any other horrible stuff in this OS, I just wish it wouldn't lol.

    Again, still not the norm. But I pray for all the nontechnical gen-z players of Valorant when something bad happens on their PC lol

    [–] wer2@lemm.ee 10 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

    Double click the exe, pending update blocks the installer, reboot, click the exe, go through a wizard that ask questions you don't know the answer to (usually defaults are ok though), be prompted for admin password, get blocked by corporate policies, fill out the IT ticket, have them remote to your box and install, reboot, find the program in the menu, run it, have it blocked by HBSS, put in ticket for that, update antivirus, reboot, manually pull group policy updates, reboot, more updates install, reboot, run the program.

    Obviously silly, but also real.

    [–] Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 5 points 17 hours ago

    Not relevant when you own the machine.

    [–] tauren@lemm.ee 9 points 20 hours ago

    It took me more time to read your post than to install a program.

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    [–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 12 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

    Windows has the excuse of being preinstalled everywhere. It makes it very hard to break system or to use the system in a way not blessed by Microsoft.

    Linux is fairly easy to learn and gives you lots and lots of power.

    [–] Suoko@feddit.it 3 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

    It looks like everyone always forget about Chromebooks or kind of ignore them...

    [–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 7 points 18 hours ago (4 children)

    I super hate Chromebooks. My mom gave my kid one and it's ruining my life. I should have just binned it and gotten him a real laptop with mint or ubermix.

    He has a computer now with ubermix, but it's an uphill battle.

    [–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 7 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

    You could ask him what he wants

    Best way to engage kids in tech is to give them options.

    [–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 6 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

    Oh I know what he wants. He wants me to put games on it. If I do it'll wreck his sleep habits for life

    [–] Suoko@feddit.it 2 points 10 hours ago

    Family link Is Great for that

    [–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 points 14 hours ago

    Depending on his age that may or may not be acceptable. My parents used to have a charging station away from bedrooms. The rules was that tech went on the charger at a certain time.

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    [–] possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 3 points 18 hours ago

    I like Chromebooks

    I would use one if it wasn't a privacy and freedom nightmare. I think it would be cool if there was a distro that was rootless by design and unbreakable as possible

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    [–] PieMePlenty@lemmy.world 64 points 1 day ago (11 children)

    I feel like linux demands an understanding of the relationship between hardware and software more than windows does.
    If all personal computer users were tech tinkerers like they were in the 70s and 80s, then linux and its distros would basically be the default OS everyone used. But that is not the world we live in. Microsoft saw a world where everyone was a computer user and Windows was designed in a way to support that vision.
    Theres nothing inherently wrong with catering to the lowest common denominator, linux apostles just need to understand that not everyone can be uplifted to their level, nor do they want to be - or, even, should be.

    [–] Abnorc@lemm.ee 12 points 22 hours ago

    This was my thought as well. Unix was built from the ground up as an OS to support researchers and engineers. Later people adapted it to desktop use. Windows was built to be easy to use for the average person from much earlier on. I don't think anyone claiming that it's not easier to use than Linux has used it lately or is being completely honest.

    Fortunately, today the gap is really small compared to what it was IMO. Compatibility with games has gotten really good which pretty much leaves behind the proprietary professional apps in terms of raw functionality. With Microsoft testing the limits of how much they can exploit their user base, I think we'll see slow but steady growth in the desktop Linux space.

    [–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 6 points 22 hours ago

    That just depends on what you want to do

    If you’re a tinker on Linux then you will be on Windows

    If you’re the lowest common denominator on Windows then you will be on Linux

    Linux just makes it easier for the user

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