this post was submitted on 02 Apr 2025
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[–] Mubelotix@jlai.lu 29 points 2 days ago (4 children)

Doesn't make any sense. Why would you crawl wikipedia when you can just download a dump as a torrent ?

[–] ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 25 points 2 days ago

AI bros aren't that smart.

[–] mke@programming.dev 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Apparently the dump doesn't include media, though there's ongoing discussion within wikimedia about changing that. It also seems likely to me that AI scrapers don't care about externalizing costs onto others if it might mean a competitive advantage (e.g. most recent data, not having to spend time and resources developing dedicated ingestion systems for specific sites).

I want to stress this: it's not that "tech bros" are just stupid—even though a lot of them are revoltingly unappreciative of the giants whose sholders they stand on—it's that they don't care.

[–] cabillaud@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

To have the most recent data?

[–] umbraroze@slrpnk.net 3 points 1 day ago

To just have the most recent data within reasonable time frame is one thing. AI companies are like "I must have every single article within 5 minutes they get updated, or I'll throw my pacifier out of the pram". No regard for the considerations of the source sites.

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[–] prototype_g2@lemmy.ml 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Feel like this belongs in !fuck_ai@lemmy.world

Think I should cross-post?

[–] Tea@programming.dev 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)
[–] Abrinoxus@thelemmy.club 19 points 2 days ago

These fucking companies.. downing a torrent of annas archive but crawling wikipedia scourge of mankind

[–] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

When I imagine a future with AI ruining the world, I always thought it was going to be some Skynet/CABAL/HAL9000 type of thing

Not this sad, boring, depressing type shit

[–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 85 points 2 days ago (4 children)

wikipedia should install ai mazes on their servers

[–] KumaSudosa@feddit.dk 10 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Not in this case, to be fair. The only concern is cost - since Wiki wouldn't be opposed to them getting their actual data - and AI mazes are designed to safeguard more sensitive data, not reducing cost

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[–] thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 198 points 3 days ago (3 children)

what assholes .. just fucking download the full package and quit hitting the URL

[–] cm0002@lemmy.world 110 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Right‽ This is ridiculously stupid when you can download the entirety of Wikipedia in a single package and parse it to your hearts desire

[–] TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 85 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Not only that, but we make it goddamn trivial for not just Wikipedia but for other Wikimedia projects. Doing this is just stealing without attribution and share-alike like the CC BY-SA 4.0 license demands and then on top of that kicking down the ladder for people who actually want to use Wikimedia and not the hallucinatory slop they're trying to supplant it with. LLM companies have caused incalculable damage to critical thinking, the open web, the copyleft movement, and the climate.

[–] ChaoticCookie@sh.itjust.works 18 points 2 days ago

Yay interrobang :D

[–] Glitchvid@lemmy.world 31 points 2 days ago

The amount of stupid AI scraping behavior I see even on my small websites is ridiculous, they'll endlessly pound identical pages as fast as possible over an entire week, apparently not even checking if the contents changed. Probably some vibe coded shit that barely functions.

If I was running infra for them, I’d just start blacklisting abusive IPs without warning

[–] cdkg@lemm.ee 53 points 2 days ago (7 children)
[–] andybytes@programming.dev 21 points 2 days ago (5 children)

I still struggle with a use case for artificial intelligence in my own life. I play around with it all and I'm just like, it doesn't do a good job. Also, I think humanity is missing the plot, you know? Like, we don't need government. If government isn't going to do government. Government serves the people, not corporations. Or at least it should. I don't know, I think we're entering in times. At some point, I think people will pray for nuclear war, because life will be so miserable. That it would be better than just to end it all.

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 5 points 2 days ago

AI has niches but they're exactly that: Niches. Small duct tape tasks for fudging over "hard problems" where manual code would result in a worse outcome and take far more time. Little esoteric problem spaces, which notably don't actually require you to use several states worth of electrical power training on a 50PB dataset of anime titties.

An example: I have a name generator in my game that strings together several consonant+vowel phoneme pairs into a name. This means that the names are always pronounceable, but often the spelling looks really unintuitive. Eg Joosiffe, which the player would likely pronounce as Joseph. However, the leap we do in our head between those two spellings is a process of declassifying phonemes and then re-classifying phonemes, and is actually a "hard problem" from a coding perspective due to the unintituive, multifarious complexities of written, spoken, and conceptualized human language. Adding this step to my name generator in code would be a project of it's own, larger than the game itself, and wouldn't ever work nearly as well as it needed to. But relatively small (30MB) AI models that do this with something like 99.8% satisfaction already exist. They didn't require a data center's worth of resources to train, and since they're academic projects they have licenses that allow them to be used for free in a game.

[–] Cocopanda@futurology.today 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I’m dyslexic and basically a terrible writer. It has helped my professional communication develop. It really helps me speed up my issues with my disability and feel confident in my communications.

[–] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

This is a cool use case. Just make sure you retain your own voice! If you read an AI-generated sentence out loud and think "I'd have said it this way instead", IMO you should absolutely then change it to be that way.

[–] Cocopanda@futurology.today 2 points 1 day ago

Understood and I do. I try to tweak it a little to my own style. But it helps write the hundreds of cover letters I’m submitting a day. Looking for work. This usually took me hours for just one submission. Now I can fly through.

[–] Spaniard@lemmy.world 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Like, we don't need government.

Welcome to the anarchist. Now you have to pick your flavor! Social Anarcho-syndicalism, Anarcho comunist, anarcho-capitalism, anarcho christianis, and the list goes on!

I found LLMs helpfuls to develop some scripts and answer some simple trivial questions (like how does house property work in China). I could have looked for that in a regular search engine though. But that's it, I am still happy looking for things myself and investigating since you can't really trust their answers.

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[–] theblips@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago

I don't know about stopping entirely. I built a pretty cool RAG system for internal use in my company, it very much facilitates navigating very large amounts of text data.

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[–] krigo666@lemmy.world 121 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Laws should be passed in all countries that AI crawlers should request permission before crawling whatever target site. I haver no pity to AI "thiefs" that get their models poisoned. F...ing plague, wasn't enough the adware and spyware...

[–] chrash0@lemmy.world 20 points 2 days ago (2 children)

i doubt the recent uptick in traffic is from “stealing data” for training but rather from agents scraping them for context, eg Edge Copilot, Google’s AI search, SearchGPT, etc.

poisoning the data will likely not help in this situation since there’s a human on the other side that will just do the same search again given unsatisfactory results. like how retries and timeouts can cause huge outages for web scale companies, poisoning search results will likely cause this type of traffic to increase and further increase the chances of DoS and higher bandwidth usage.

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[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 21 points 3 days ago (4 children)

An HTTP request is a request. Servers are free to rate limit or deny access

[–] FaceDeer@fedia.io 19 points 3 days ago (2 children)

And Wikimedia, in particular, is all about publishing data under open licenses. They want the data to be downloaded and used by others. That's what it's for.

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[–] taladar@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 days ago

Rate limiting in itself requires resources that are not always available. For one thing you can only rate limit individuals you can identify so you need to keep data about past requests in memory and attach counters to them and even then that won't help if the requests come from IPs that are easily changed.

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[–] collapse_already@lemmy.ml 41 points 2 days ago (6 children)

And the quality of the AI output sucks. I was recently looking for information about positive convention for yaw, pitch, and roll in aircraft. I was looking at az and yaw and got reasonable results from the AI, but when I looked at pitch and el all of the results were about elevator pitches. Even when I spelled out elevation it insisted on elevator pitches. I scroll past the AI results as a matter of principle, but I usually look at them so I have something specific to complain about when people ask why I am so virulently anti-AI.

[–] GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml 14 points 2 days ago (2 children)

The other day I tried to have it help me with a programming task on a personal project. I am an experienced programmer, but I only "get by" in Python (typically just by looking up the documentation for the standard library). I thought, "OK. This is it. I will ask Llama 3.3 and GPT4 for help."

That shit literally set me back a weekend. It gave me such bad approaches and answers, that I could tell were bad (aforementioned experience in programming, degree in comp sci, etc) that I got confused about writing Python. Had I just done what I usually do, which is to look up the documentation and use my brain, I would have gotten my weekend task done a whole weekend sooner.

It scares me to think what people are doing to themselves by relying on this, especially if they're novices.

[–] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 2 days ago

It scares me to think what people are doing to themselves by relying on this, especially if they're novices.

Same here. There's a lot of denial going on but, LLMs are not good for anything that requires factual information. They likely will never be on account of just being statistical models for language. Summarizing long text where correctness isn't an issue is really one of the only places where I still think that they are good.

Search? Not if you want anything factual with citations.

Code? Fuck no. They constantly produce code of poor quality that may depend on non-existent libraries or functionality. More time it's spent debugging than writing code and it leaves the dev with a poor understanding of what the code actually does and ways to optimize/extend/etc.

Generating literary smut? Well, it's not going to do as good of a job as a person who can create something completely novel but can be passable without likely harm to authors (I'd classify it as a tier below erotic fan fiction).

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[–] bassomitron@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago

AI is useful for basic, mundane tasks and that's about it. Trying to force it to be some sort of Uber search engine is such a bad idea.

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[–] andybytes@programming.dev 21 points 2 days ago (2 children)

This is an example of corporate terrorism sponsored by our own government. Elon Musk loves to see himself as the villain in Ready Player One. And this is not a joke you can look it up. Big tech is waging war against American citizens, and no longer do we have any control of our government, and the Democrats will not save us. The electoral processes will not save us. This is just hard for some people to accept, that's why things have to fall apart before they get a clue. Unfortunately, those that are wiser are going to feel the flames first.

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[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 days ago

Support Wikipedia! They're awesome and are our backbone.

[–] Telorand@reddthat.com 23 points 3 days ago (3 children)

AI: The "pen that can write in zero gravity" when pencils exist.

[–] Alk@sh.itjust.works 43 points 3 days ago (6 children)

Well I get the analogy, but also I think they didn't use pencils because of the graphite and complications with filtering air or something.

[–] catloaf@lemm.ee 27 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Graphite is conductive. A short circuit and fire are Very Bad.

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[–] Buelldozer 13 points 2 days ago (1 children)

This pen / pencil thing has been corrected so many times for so many decades that it's ludicrous people are still bringing it up.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-nasa-spen/

Random bits of pencil lead floating around in a high tech environment is such a poor idea that even the Soviet's quit using pencils once Fisher's Space Pen was available. A pen which Fisher itself paid to develop and then sold to both NASA and the Soviet Space Program.

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