1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
Question for those of you living in a country where marijuana is legal. What are the positive sides, what are the negatives?
If you could go back in time, would you vote for legalising again? Does it affect the country's illegal drug business , more/less?
OP, please change the title to make it less vague what the question is about without having to open it.
@oyzmo@lemmy.world
I’m happy with legalization and would do it again.
The one thing I’d do differently is stricter regulations against secondhand smoke. Now that cigarettes have seriously declined, it’s easier to appreciate just how much they stink. But we’ve backslid: smoking pot stinks worse, and has a lot of the same second hand smoke hazard.
Thank you for all the answers! :) It seems like most replies are positive to legalisation. The (amount of) stores is mention by a few to be one of the negatives. Perhaps government-owned stores (Like those some Nordic countries have for alcohol) could be a better solution? They have trainer employees and very strict rules both for opening times and age controls.
I'm going to go against the grain here a little. First of all, it should absolutely be decriminalized. No one should spend time behind bars for using or selling it, obviously.
But it got legalized here back in 2022 and while it was great at first, weed sort of sucks now. Because of legal limits to how many plants you can grow, CBD disappeared. Every strain is somewhere between 20-30 percent THC and just makes your brain numb, doesn't get you high the same way. Everything is way more expensive because every few years they vote to increase taxes on it, so strains that were 5 bucks a g when it was illegal are 10-11 now. Edibles have concentration limits so you're paying out the ass now for 100 mg, which someone would before make in their kitchen and give away for cheap.
Not to mention that there is one. On. Every. Street. Corner.
It's insane. Every business that closes down turns into a dispo and the added competition does not lower prices. Out town is losing cafes, art stores, all sorts of businesses because the cancer that is a dispensary keeps spreading. On a personal note, I've been trying to cut back for years and honestly I think if I still had to call "my buddy" to pickup i would have stopped a long time ago, but now it's in my face everywhere and tbh, it just sucks. It just gets you high. That's it. I can't explain it, it lost so much heart.
Now it's probably cleaner, safer, more ethical. But from a consumers perspective, it kind of sucks now.
The taxes are a benefit though. While I agree pot should be legal, it is a vice and vice taxes seem like a good approach to discouraging a bad habit.
And yes as someone who moderately drinks, I whole heartedly agree the same is true with alcohol. Let’s increase those vice taxes. And cigarettes. And gasoline. And drink cans
Legalize it, but it's still addictive. I don't think my nation has a weed problem, but how would I know? I don't know where to get weed or crack or heroin
I am happy with the legalization. I’ve never smoked weed or even drunk alcohol despite being legally able to do so. And I still think weed legalization was a huge benefit for many reasons.
Like. Why was this bs ever illegal in the first place?
Like. Why was this bs ever illegal in the first place?
Us answer:
I believe Nixon realized they couldn't make it illegal to be against the war and otherwise left wing, but they could make things correlated with that illegal. And thus the war on drugs was born. It also lets the state enforce white supremacy.
Recommend reading "the new Jim Crow" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Jim_Crow
Thailand legalized it not too long ago and I'd say it's 90% positive.
There were a few populist issues like catching kids with weed etc but imo that's actually a positive as people starting to actually talk about kid safety when previously they had all these drugs and worse.
Personally I'd say the only danger is high concentrates which are illegal here and not very desired by the market either way. Mostly tourists and locals just want to smoke normal mid tier weed and enjoy the nature and thai food which is a win-win for everyone. I've seen some gravity bongs and a bit of oils (never seen anyone dab) but I'd say 90% of users just smoke mid tier 5$/g weed of 28% thc or so mostly mixed with tobacco too.
My favorite change is just the culture shift. Stoned tourists are just so much nicer and the party scene has changed a lot around this.
Legal weed as been huge for business here. Thai people are incredible entrepreneurs and were really quick to develop the industry to the point where the government tried to reverse legalization a year later but it was too late already.
Pretty sure weed causes far less harm than organised criminal groups.
Logically, if tobacco and alcohol are legal, there's no health-related reason for marijuana to be illegal. Both alcohol and weed impair your judgement, and both smoking tobacco and smoking weed are harmful to your lungs. Everything else about alcohol or tobacco vs weed is worse. And giving criminals easy ways to make money is a bad idea.
So, as another response said, legalize it, regulate it, tax it.
It's two years old, but here is what Statistics Canada has to say about it: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/231016/dq231016c-eng.htm
giant megacorps can definitely beat out some random shady dealer (indirectly from mental outlaw)
Legalise it, regulate the growing and selling of it and kill the green market.
It's sad to see a lot of the misinformation here that says there are no downsides to weed. In fact, weed has a ton of downsides that need to be considered in how marijuana is handled in a society.
If you are a visual/ audio learner, here's a well researched video on the downsides of weed, from a source that acknowledges their staffs personal biases lean towards legalization.
Kurzgesagt, "We Have to Talk About Weed
Basically, we need to recognize that due to having criminalized weed for so long, we are only now getting the research into the negative effects of weed, but as it's coming out we are seeing how weed is not all sunshine and rainbows.
THC potency has increased dramatically since the 60s, and that has led to increased risks of paranoia, psychosis, and panic attacks. It also increases the risk of Cannabinoid Hypermesis Syndrome, where ingesting weed will make you vomit, nauseous, and have horrible abdominal pain.
My roommate just got this and she is not having fun. Her doctor told her this may be a 6 month T-break, but it's also possible this is permanent, and best to avoid weed altogether.
I also am sad to see "weed is not addictive" being thrown around. Cannabis Use Disorder (weed addiction) is very real and a quick look up says 10% of users become addicted. Personally I consider myself stuck on a habit since I can control my use to keeping it after 8pm, but I still have trouble not getting high daily. I have a friend who is now 100 days sober, but when he had a relapse last year, it ruined his life.
That's not to say it's bad, I have another friend who needs weed to help him get through the day with his PTSD. We just need to recognize one person's medicine is another person's poison.
Most all of the major issues with weed tend to show up with people who began smoking in adolescence. I think a reason I'm somewhat I'm control and my other friend is not is that I started smoking at 22 in college, and he started at 16. I imagine if I waited until I was 25 I'd have no problem making it a weekend thing.
That said
My experience and the pain many have dealing with the health issues associated to weed are no where near comparable to the damage that criminalized weed has had on marginalized communities as weed has historically been used to target and oppress minorities by our US government. I also agree to the points that having a black market is FAR worse than having legal weed that needs regulation.
Personally I'm pro-legalization, but I think we need to be careful at how we are messaging weed to the youths and handling the negative consequences, as the myths of weed just being an innocent plant are super harmful.
I honestly agree 100%. While I don't smoke, I have a lot off friends that do and the amount of rhetoric I've heard about it's lack of downsides and addictiveness is baffling. I cant exactly say anything either, because they're clearly looking for a "yes" answer and anything else won't be accepted (I don't want to say some of them are addicted, but smoking it near-daily for years isnt a good sign)
I'm a medical student, so I've looked at quite a few studies, and they seem to align with what you're saying: that you're at a much higher risk of developing psychiatric disorders, as well as abdominal or lung diseases depending on your form of intake if marijuana is taken chronically
That's a bit of a false dilemma though. The two options aren't "it's a magical elixir with absolutely no downsides" and "people deserve to be locked in a cage and have their life ruined for possessing it". Plenty of legal things can cause harm. 35% of people are lactose intolerant, do we ban dairy?
Did you read the whole comment? OP finishes his comment addressing exactly what you question, they say the good outweighs the bad, and it should be legal.
I think that this is a very balanced and thoughtful take that I agree with. As someone who has been smoking daily for the better part of 4 years now, weed has helped a lot but it has also hurt me a lot. At my peak i could easily kill a quad a day, although now I'm down to a gram a day if that. I would've been in a much better position financially if I never started smoking, and I'm sure my health would've been a lot better. That being said, smoking has helped me through some very difficult times and has given me community. I started smoking in highschool but stopped until I graduated and started again right before college. I've stopped having my own supply at points (not stopped smoking altogether but gone mostly sober), but especially in this day and age it's very helpful to have it. It doesn't help that where I am, a lottttttt of people are cali sober (me included).
++
It costs more to police it. It is profitable otherwise. No one genuinely cares. I haven't smoked since college. It eventually gets boring. It's a business. That's it. Sorry there isn't a mystical description for it. It's money.
I don't care about health benefits/dangers of any vice as much as I hate how ingrained vices are in our daily lives. I'm sick of beer ads, I hate online sports betting sponsoring every event (and rapidly turning a lot of friends into gamblers), my recently weed-legal state is already flooded with local ads and shitty shops.
I dream of a utopia where no vices are sold in a store or advertised. If you want to indulge you go to the equivalent of a Native American casino on steroids. It's a massive temple to hedonism, zoning for it is very restricted. You can do any drug you want there, everything carefully dosed and tested. There's complimentary trip-sitters and emergency services on call.
Things that aren't an immediate threat to yourself/others (mushrooms, lsd, mj, low abv drinks, etc...) can be sold for private personal consumption off-prem with a reasonable limit per person. You can't partake in public and can be asked for proof of purchase during transit.
There's no perverse vice tax that leeches money from addicts who can't afford it, the government's best financial interest is to keep people clean and spending money elsewhere. If you need something to routinely "take the edge off" you get easy access to medical services (mental/physical/otherwise) and a prescription from a real doctor.
Any time I hear arguments for full legalization of anything in the USA I just have nightmares of inane Budweiser-style weed/cocaine/heroin commercials.
I feel like you have issues with the way capitalism takes advantage of people's vices and you blamed half of it on the vices. If it wasn't exploited, and drugs weren't criminalized, with normal and healthy social standards taught instead of total abstinence creating an attractive taboo, none of that would be an issue.
Except, there'd still be issues, because addiction creates issues. A society where drugs are allowed is not one free from issues. They'll still ruin lives. They'll still destroy families, and hurt children. Education helps, but it does not eliminate the problem
Neither does making a drug house that people need transportation to get to. That's the same as criminalizing it for many people.
I'm of the opinion that unless it's regulated in some way, people will be systemically/individually exploited. An addict can't be trusted to keep doses safe, be sure they're using in a safe place, or properly prioritize their personal wellness.
Just recognize it's something that's going to happen and take reasonable efforts to set limits without glamourizing it. Controlling ease of access is a simple way to do that (look at the bump in gambling problems since the 2018 SCOTUS ruling). You don't have to kick in the doors of everyone with a personal grow or basement home brewing setup.
If these substances could be handled universally with education and social mores, total abstinence would have already worked. No amount of taboo can make crippling addiction sexy.
A drug casino doesn't solve those problems though. Better social services for addicts can. Addiction is impossible to eradicate, all you can do is provide good social services for addicts and recovery programs (which aren't judgemental and Christian). Requiring transportation to go get and use drugs is the same thing as criminalizing it for many people.
Any safety and recovery programs are a lot easier to manage when you know exactly where your source is and who's using. Safe injection sites already exist and have been shown to eliminate overdoses and increase access to social services without any honeypot effect or increased drug use. Adding safe and tested drug sales to the site is a pretty logical step.
Requiring transportation is a detail for implementation, you already need it to do anything in the USA. Unless you think every person has a right to get drugs delivered to their doorstep?
There's a big difference between the weed shop I can walk to down the corner and the nearest safe use site/casino. I think people should be free to engage in whatever recreational activity they choose to, and the existence of addiction doesn't give the government the right to infringe on those freedoms. Safe use sites and social programs can exist without a semi-dystopian puritan system. I don't understand why addiction is so huge a problem that it requires such insane overreach. Without capitalist exploitation, addiction wouldn't be monetized. A different form of government and legalization do a far better job at managing addiction than creating a black market with draconian laws.
I don't think it's that crazy or draconian at all. You're still free to engage in the safest way possible. You have confidence that it's a safe location and your drug of choice isn't cut with fentanyl. Why would there be a black market? Addicts generally don't like buying from untrustworthy sources and passing out in alleyways.
There's a strange pushback to accepting that humans are physical creatures that evolved for certain stimulus. Society functions by self restraint and a social contract that says, for example, my neighbor won't go into a stimulant induced psychosis and assault me. Its not a poor reflection on his moral character, that's just how a human reacts to the substance.
It's kind of a childish libertarian view to demand full personal freedom at societies' expense. Your freedom to use a drug anywhere at any time means that the rest of us have to distribute narcan at the library, regulate 45,000 liquor stores, hire more police to counter intoxicated driving, and expand EMS to handle completely preventable emergencies. All that to save you a weekly bus trip to the casino?
Changing the economic system has no impact on any of that, those are the set costs of addiction. Addiction doesn't cease being a problem because you give up on preventing it. You're undermining the money going to social services by avoiding simple deterrence-by-inconveince
If you think weed should not be legalized, then you should be consistent and apply the same to alcohol and tobacco. Both of these substances do far more harm than weed with far fewer medical properties.
Deal 🤝
Prohibition of vice does not work and only empowers organized crime.
End of argument.
Scientifically speaking, the pros outweigh the cons everytime.
Public Safety should not be done with the assumption that the public is made up of stupid children that would kill themselves at every possible opportunity (though some people are like that) rather it should come with the assumption that adults are smart enough and have the right to make decisions about them selves.
The government should work towards education so that the public can be better informed and only restrict extreme situations where a reasonable mistake can lead to unreasonable consequences or harm to others. And "Gateway drugs" is as stupid as saying that teaching people how to use a knife would lead them to seek out sharper and bigger knives until they stab themselves and die.
Pros:
Cons:
I'm not a regular smoker, I think we are better off having it legal though.
Legalize it
Tax it
Regulate it
