this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2025
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Privacy

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Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

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[–] orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 30 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

A few years ago I was a titled member of a local activist group that was considered “militant” by local police. It was a Black-lead group (I’m white myself) that spoke out and fought against police corruption, had a low-frequency radio station, and some other cool socialist shit. Anyway, I learned in a roundabout way that the local police would come by my house weekly to keep tabs on when I was home and when I wasn’t. I’m pretty sure they did this with every member. I’ll admit it was kind of flattering, seeing as I don’t consider myself even remotely important, but also fun because it wasted some cops’ time.

I don’t think people fully realize that the tons of funding these pig farms get is enough to allow them to arbitrarily put surveillance on everyday folks without even breaking a sweat. Some of the FOIA requests I’ve heard about from people in my local activist circles are wild. FBI vans, country-wide surveillance tracking using ATM cameras, wild shit!

The tl;dr - yes, even you can be under some sort of surveillance. Even if it’s just that the cops have seen your face more than once at various marches.

[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 25 points 3 days ago (3 children)

TLDR: Detecting Stingrays is pretty trivial, they are active in a lot of places.

I use a software defined radio, mostly to have a cool map using ADS-B… but it also can receive in the ghz frequency bands and capture the unencrypted header information for cellular data.

That information is largely useless because modern cellular communications don’t expose anything private. However, most cellphones will automatically attempt to use a downgraded connection (5G -> 4G) if they lose connection with the tower.

Stingay/IMSI catcher/Cell Site Simulator take advantage of this by forcing phones in an area to downgrade their connections to older and less secure frequencies and then exploiting that downgrade to get information about the phones in the area.

You can detect these downgrade attacks by listening to the traffic and analyzing the packet captures.

I noticed that my cellphone was losing connection to the tower and I was trying to see if maybe the tower was rebooting or something odd.

I tuned into the frequency bands and saw that it was still transmitting a strong signal while my phone showed no connection. If I restarted the connection it would connect to the tower, but if not it would lose the connection for 15-20mins. It always happened towards midnight but, oddly, not always at the same time.

That made me curious so I found the software to packet capture the cellular data and detect downgrade attacks. Sure enough, I’d get a downgrade attack detection and my phone would drop connection.

After a bit more research I discovered that the connection dropping was a feature, not a bug. GrapheneOS can prevent your cellular modem from downgrading in order to mitigate these kinds of attacks.

And, also, that you don’t have to buy expensive software defined radios and do all of the annoying packet capture and analysis to detect these things. You can do it with cheap ($20) hardware and free software from the EFF: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/03/meet-rayhunter-new-open-source-tool-eff-detect-cellular-spying

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 14 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Even if you just have a standard Android operating system, you can prevent downgrade attacks by dialing *#*#4636#*#* and choosing phone information on Android. In there you can choose what your modem will connect to and so you can set it to only connect to say 5G and LTE and if neither of those are available your phone will just have no service.

[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

That’s a good tip, I did not know that.

If someone is going to do this, you really only need to disable 2G. The later generations are encrypted and only your carrier (and the intelligence services who’ve compelled the carriers to provide the keys) has access to the important data.

[–] f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

My Motorola has this by default, buried in Settings > Security > More security settings > Network protection.

[–] _core@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago

I have a Motorola, I just checked and it was not on. It is now.

[–] Geodad@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

I turn off legacy connections. Worst case, I get DoS'd.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

However, most cellphones will automatically attempt to use a downgraded connection (5G -> 4G) if they lose connection with the tower.

Is 4g actually less secure?

I thought it was fine... Down grade attack is done via 2g/3g which have no security

[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

They downgrade to 2G, whose encryption is cracked trivially with modern hardware and there’s no tower authentication so it’s possible to have the phones connect through the css.

Disable 2G (or use GrapheneOS) and you’ll mitigate this specific attack.

3G and 4G have some flaws themselves(from Blackhat ‘17: https://youtu.be/BFkrK5kaH4o)

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Damn... So 5g only should be used?

I was operating under idea that 4g was better than 5g for privacy and security. I guess I need to hit the books again

Never heard being

[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Damn… So 5g only should be used?

Well…

https://cyberdefensereview.army.mil/Portals/6/CDR%20V5N1%20-%2008_%20Fonyi_WEB.pdf (List on page 10)

It’s safer to just assume that your cellular traffic can be monitored and SMS can be spoofed. So, use VPNs for data(and DNS) and Signal/whatever end to end encrypted messaging software.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Ohh i am balls deep into privacy game.

Just trying to sort out if 5g is better over 4g here for daily activities.

5g uses more battery so I generally stay on 4g but if 4g is less secure, might need to go with 5g

Also, doesnt 5g provide telco with with you position too?

IE they can tell you are on 5th floor v 15th

[–] FauxLiving@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Yeah, 5G uses beamforming so they know where you are with pretty high accuracy.

Nothing will prevent them knowing your location, if you’re transmitting a signal it can be located with WWI level technology. But the providers do log that data so it can be available for law enforcement.

[–] DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago

Too bad the site monitors only American cities.

[–] BlueEther@no.lastname.nz 16 points 3 days ago (2 children)

probably not at the moment, but just after 9/11 I think I got on the UK's watch list for flights. Pre 9/11 I never had an issue at airports.

After 9/11 I was part of a usnet group that chatted about how easy it would be to do the bring a plane down with what could be legally be taken on a plane. Then every time I flew I was pulled out at the baggage scan / fully patted down / a couple of time it was to a booth and take off your jacket, belt, shoes, socks etc / always had to empty my carry-on bag / turn on ly laptop / etc.

This lasted until about 2005 - then just stopped and have never been patted down since

[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 4 points 3 days ago

Now's the time, brother!

[–] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

alt.fan.planes.crash.crash.crash

[–] Jumuta@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)

they should post this on c/schizophrenia

[–] quick_snail@feddit.nl 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

We should implant chips into Schizophrenic people's ears, so that we can whisper into their ears comforting phrases all day and night.

https://theonion.com/in-the-know-is-the-government-spying-on-paranoid-schiz-1819594659/

[–] foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 4 points 3 days ago

To dive deeper in the subject check this:

https://www.stopspying.org/peoples-handbook

[–] Sam_Bass@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 days ago

I was. Drove in unregistered vehicle for a year so I guess i deserved it but still

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 0 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

i'm not incredibly diligent with privacy so the mass surveillance machine probably knows a thing or two about me. i haven't been doing anything to warrant the resources for personalized stalking though.

i also live in less of a police state, i think that helps too.