this post was submitted on 08 Jan 2024
567 points (97.2% liked)

politics

19144 readers
3207 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The former president is still feeding the Christian right’s persecution complex

In recent campaign stops and on social media, Donald Trump has reprised lies aimed at inciting his Christian-right base against Joe Biden. These tirades, centered on the false charge that the Biden administration is persecuting Christians, aren’t just Trump’s typically dubious claims. Much like Trump’s lies about a stolen election, they are designed to immerse his loyalists in a grievance-laden alternative reality in which Trump alone can rescue them from an evil government threatening their freedom.

In a Dec. 19 speech in Iowa, for example, Trump pledged, “As soon as I get back in the Oval Office, I’ll also immediately end the war on Christians. I don’t know if you feel it. You have a war. There’s a war.” Speaking just after the Colorado Supreme Court disqualified him from appearing on the state’s GOP primary ballot, Trump tied this “war” to his own legal woes. “Under crooked Joe Biden, Christians and Americans of faith are being persecuted and government has been weaponized against religion like never before. And also presidents like never before,” he added. “I always say Al Capone was treated better than I was treated.”

Trump has promoted the theme of Christian persecution in the past, but is elevating it again as these legal issues mount. His clear purpose is to deflect attention from his own criminal liabilities by insinuating that the same Biden administration he falsely claims is unfairly targeting him for prosecution is similarly persecuting religious Americans.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 122 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Do you know what "War on Christmas" really means? It means "everyone who isn't a Christian should either conform to us or get the fuck out of this country because it's a Christian country." Which is one of the reasons that all of us who were born here, maybe had ancestors here going back generations, whose only "crime" was not being Christian are regularly made to feel like we're foreigners in our own homeland. I didn't celebrate Christmas growing up in religious Indiana. I was treated like shit for it. There's no war on Christmas. There's a war against people who don't celebrate Christmas or even just dare to say they aren't big fans of Christmas. Enjoy our holiday our way. Or else. That's the war. And they're the ones waging it.

We should be allowed, in "the land of the free" to not want to take part in Christmas for any reason be it another religion, psychological issues, it's too commercial, you think Santa looks stupid, whatever, and not be given shit for it by these MAGA assholes trying to force their theocratic will on all of us.

[–] rdyoung@lemmy.world 27 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

What's even better is that Christmas isn't even a religious holiday (not in the way they think it is). The current version of Santa was created by Coca-Cola in the 30s iirc and Jesus' birthday would have actually been sometime in the summer or early fall. Basically, Xmas as we know it here is less than a century old and originally had nothing to do with Jesus or any other religious nonsense.

Xmas, Easter and more have been preempted by the catholic church. They were originally pagan holidays based around the seasons, the sun, etc

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 34 points 10 months ago (2 children)

You're mixing things up a little. Santa wears red and white because of Coca Cola advertising. He used to wear all kinds of crazy colors. Jesus's "birthday" is celebrated in December to coincide with winter solstice celebrations that already existed in Roman times. It's hard to tell when it "should have been", but there wouldn't be shepards outside with their flock at night in December. Maybe Spring.

[–] GentriFriedRice@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The shepherd at night is probably a red herring. Shepherds stay out at night during lambing season which is February-April in Europe and North America but November-March in Israel

[–] KevonLooney@lemm.ee 8 points 10 months ago

Possibly. But also a census (the reason for Mary and Joseph going to Bethlehem) in wintertime would not have been practical in Ancient Judea.

There's a surprising number of people writing about this:

A great deal more could be said, but for now I simply want to draw the reader’s attention to the time period which keeps coming up in relation to the first census headed by Quirinius: the years 8–6 BC. Keeping in mind that the Magi gave Herod information that prompted him to kill all the Bethlehem boys “from two years old and under” (Mt 2:16, probably meaning between the ages of one and two), plus they visited Herod at Jerusalem rather than at his winter quarters at Jericho, this visit probably took place in the summer or early fall of 5 BC (we have to allow for their travel time to and from Persia while avoiding the hardships of a winter journey). Add between one and two years to that, and early spring in 6 BC seems to be a good fit for Quirinius’ census.

The Roman and Judean rulers knew that taking a census in winter would have been impractical and unpopular. Generally a census would take place after the harvest season, around September or October, when it would not seriously affect the economy, the weather was good and the roads were still dry enough to allow easy travel…Luke's account of the census argues strongly against a December date for Messiah's birth. For such an agrarian society, an autumn post-harvest census was much more likely.

https://biblearchaeology.org/abr-projects-main/the-daniel-9-24-27-project-2/4368-pinpointing-the-date-of-christ-s-birth

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] MagicShel@programming.dev 19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Christmas isn't just for christians. It is also important to the state religion: capitalism.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No. "War on Christians" is a test balloon that went over well in Bumblefuck Anywhere so he's using it now. It used to be "Mexico will pay for the wall" but now it's this. Back in the Gee Dubya days there was a news cycle - it's very specifically pin-pointable, like one week it started; where gays were going to get married and make us all marry gays and oooh bad.

Same shit. Different fear wand. Old, old bullshit. Works every time on ignorant people. Democrats will sometimes try this with actual fears like "they're going to drive the economy into the ditch" but it never works the same. It's never got the enough stench of sheer panic and maniacal idiocy when they do it. Also Democrats aren't as reliably susceptible to it so it's also kind of pointless there.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

It's not necessarily that they want to impost Christmas on everyone. Sure that's a by-product.

What they want is not to feel like their holiday is being attacked. Something as simple as "Happy Holidays" is seen as a threat to their personal beliefs and they feel attacked when people use it. So if you don't say anything and just say "have a nice day they don't care. But as soon as you say something triggering like "happy holidays", they flip out.

Because they feel attacked, they feel justified in forcing others to say Christmas.

Again, fully manufactured rage for the purpose of maintaining what they feel is right.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 16 points 10 months ago

That is part of it, but there is a big contingency of Christians in this country that think this is a Christian country and non-Christians do not belong here. I have encountered them and their hostility many times in my life.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 7 points 10 months ago

you think Santa looks stupid

As someone who's not a fan of Christmas but IS a jolly fat man with a big beard (dark brown with gray in it, though, not white), that's not my FAVORITE reason...

[–] RedditWanderer@lemmy.world 64 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

[–] Suburbanl3g3nd@lemmings.world 26 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't say anything about the President. Ha! Checkmate! /s

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] BeautifulMind@lemmy.world 56 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So basically his campaign promise is to violate the constitution, his strategy to get into office is to tell lies designed to divide Americans and it looks like the MAGAs are thirsty AF for it

[–] catch22@startrek.website 56 points 10 months ago (1 children)

“I always say Al Capone was treated better than I was treated.”

Sounds fair to me, Al Capone was just a gangster, this fuckhead is trying to start the fourth reich

[–] Riccosuave@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago

~~fuckhead~~ is trying to start the ~~fourth~~ reich

Adolf Shitler is trying to start the Turd Reich.

[–] VikingHippie@lemmy.wtf 55 points 10 months ago (4 children)

So basically he wants an American version of the Iranian "Morality Police" torturing and killing people for not adhering to their archaic dogma.

And they thought "Y'all Quaeda" was a joke..

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago

Never did. It's just astounding all the republiQan women are like, "oh yeah of course absolutely" and then actually fucking do it.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] BiggestBulb@kbin.run 42 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Ramping up his authoritarian rhetoric, Trump pledged in the lowa speech to institutionalize an authoritarian crackdown of the same sort he falsely accuses the Biden administration of implementing. “Upon taking office, I will create a new federal task force on fighting anti-Christian bias to be led by a fully reformed Department of Justice that's fair and equitable," he promised. «Its mission will be to investigate all forms of illegal discrimination, harassment and persecution against Christians in America."

This is the quote from the article about the task force.

[–] prole@sh.itjust.works 33 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

I don't think people understand what's going to happen if he gets elected again. He's talking about re-purposing the Department of Justice into some McCarthy-esque nightmare that will be targeting schools (including universities). If it is not clear what the GOP's intention is here, you have not been paying attention. Read about Project 2025. This shit is terrifying.

I hope everyone likes what's going on with public education in Florida, because it's going to become a nationwide thing.

Everybody needs to vote. We know it's not your first choice, but this election is about keeping our Republic from falling apart. Vote for Biden, and then we can focus on finding a young progressive candidate for next time.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I’m currently reading ‘The Gospel of J. Edgar Hoover: How the FBI Aided and Abetted the Rise of White Christian Nationalism’ and it’s about exactly this.

The Gospel of J. Edgar Hoover: How the FBI Aided and Abetted the Rise of White Christian Nationalism https://a.co/d/bBZ3hkA

[–] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 38 points 10 months ago (4 children)

In a Dec. 19 speech in Iowa, for example, Trump pledged, “As soon as I get back in the Oval Office, I’ll also immediately end the war on Christians. I don’t know if you feel it. You have a war. There’s a war.”

LMAO imagine saying this shit.

[–] CADmonkey@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Right? How oppressed are you if there is a building dedicated to your religion on every street?

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 14 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I can't. It's literally demented. His blabbering is so fucking off the rails it may as well be Martian for all it matters. Just angry chirps and barks and squeaks with the little accordion hands going back and forth. Fucking insanity.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] exixx@lemmy.world 35 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I’m sixty. I hope I live long enough to piss on his grave

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 31 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I always say Al Capone was treated better than I was treated.

How can anyone take him seriously. He's talking like he got crucified or something. Let's all cry for a baby Trump who lost an election, then a coup attempt, and is still in the top 1% with all his loyal sponsors he syphons money from. How many lawyers he changed over just the last year? How an average american can even find this spoiled kid relateable?

[–] Princeali311@lemm.ee 9 points 10 months ago

Not to mention the audacity to claim to be a Christian compared to Catholic ass Joe Biden and his dumbass followers believe him.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This smells a lot like very old school anti-Catholic sentiment. People forget that the KKK hated Catholics just as much as blacks. They don't see Biden as a real Christian like they are.

[–] CaptainSpaceman@lemmy.world 19 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Wasnt Trumps dad a grand wizard or something?

[–] TimLovesTech@badatbeing.social 22 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I don't think he was a grand wizard, but he was arrested during a KKK march in NYC in 1927.

The Wikipedia citation states Trumps denial it even happened, and this:

The KKK was then a far-right white nationalist Protestant group in the U.S. that specifically targeted black and brown people, Jews, Catholics, and immigrants. (It also opposed birth control, consuming alcohol, and the public teaching of evolution.

Edit - adding the Wikipedia page on Fred Trump as reading that you'll see the "apple didn't fall far from the tree" and Trump learned from the beginning that:

  1. Rules don't apply to the rich
  2. Even when "enforced" you deny and keep criming because you're rich
[–] Zombiepirate@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

But Trump did get David Duke's endorsement twice.

[–] DessertStorms@kbin.social 28 points 10 months ago (2 children)

So a morality police? Like they have in say, Iran..? I can't wait to see the mental gymnastics the Christofascist fundamentalists do to diferenciate themsleves from the Islamofascist fundamentalists.. 🙄🤦‍♀️

[–] CalicoJack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It'll be exactly the same as when they were convinced that "Sharia Law" was coming to destroy the country, while also fighting to impose Christian Law and destroy the country themselves. It's always ok when they're doing it, because they're "right".

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] YoorWeb@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] billwashere@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Oh FFS … when will this chuckle fuck just fade into infamy?

He’s probably less religious than I am and I’m an atheist.

Maybe if we’re lucky he’ll get syphilis and die in prison like Capone did.

[–] limelight79@lemm.ee 20 points 10 months ago (2 children)

It is incredibly frustrating that Christians see this man as a good person, basically the antithesis of everything they supposedly believe. Three wives? Cheating on your pregnant wife with a prostitute? Doesn't go to church.

I hope the Lincoln Project or whatever it was saved some good stuff for this election.

[–] Riccosuave@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" seems to be a piece of timeless historical wisdom by Voltaire that unfortunately just never seems to fall out of relevancy when it comes to pointed criticism of the Christian church specifically, and religion more broadly.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

This coming from the guy who a) never goes to church; b) publicly held a Bible upside down for a PR image; c) only believes in himself.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 11 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The stuff this man gets away with is really unlike anything I've ever seen. I remember he said something about he could shoot someone in board daylight and people would cheer. I originally thought he was joking, but boy if I only knew back then.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] ghostdoggtv@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The Christian religion is garbage and we never should have let those fucking people on our shores.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] wabafee@lemm.ee 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Would he prefer to be called supreme leader next?

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] aelwero@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Ok... There's a whole lot of fuckedupedness in Trump's statement, and in this comment section...

The "war" he's suggesting does in fact exist, it's a real thing, but the intended targets are Christian by happenstance... The persecution involved isn't persecution of a group being identified as Christian, it's persecution of a group identified as what is probably best described as "trumps circle".

He's projecting persecution of himself, and his close associates, to a religion that isn't the actual target at all...

It's a complete head fake... A sham... And everyone's addressing it as though they already accept that it's an actual fucking thing, on both sides... Y'all are commenting on this as though Christianity is actually relevant... It's not... The blue team isn't persecuting Christianity, they're persecuting trumps crew, who just happen to be Christians...

C'mon guys... Don't buy this fat fucks bullshit... There's enough people that'll do that on purpose already ;)

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] badbytes@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

Grifters gonna grift.

load more comments
view more: next ›