PSA: Lemmy.ml is not Lemmy (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 1 year ago by concrete_baby@sh.itjust.works to c/fediverse@lemmy.world

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Too many people are confusing the two. Whenever lemmy.ml or its devs do something stupid, people go "Lemmy is getting worse and worse," or "I'm leaving Lemmy," or worse, "I'm leaving for Beehaw."

If you're using Beehaw, then you're using Lemmy. Lemmy is the software these instances run on. If you don't like lemmy.ml, join another instances that have rules that match your philosophy. Some instance hosts authoritarian or fascist shit? Turn to another Lemmy instance. Lemmy.ml is not even the biggest instance. People who just joined and are unfamiliar with the platform will just think the entire Lemmyverse is run by autocratic admins if we don't get our terminology right.

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[-] quinten@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Lemmy feels as a aplha/beta product that we ar all testing right now. Nothing wrong with that, in fact, I like Lemmy more then Reddit. But you cannot expect everyone to love it right now.

For Reddit its clear: you sign up, you search for a community and you subscribe.

Here, you sign up (if you don't get the spinning wheel). You search for a community. Oh, it is on another instance. What is a instance? Then you browse and see different Lemmy websites. You get confused, you heard something about Fediverse but what is it?

Also, there is no karma what important is for many users. Mod tools are extremly limited and all the apps you can use on mobile are in alpha/beta/in development.

There should be a easy to understand welcome page upon sign-up and I think this needs to be prioritized if we want to welcome (more) mainstream users. The post that explains how Lemmy works on c/lemmyworld doesn't cut it.

[-] bilboswaggings@sopuli.xyz 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Karma is important? The only "use" for it is to do what? users farm it so adding karma or something similar would just make this place worse

[-] carl_dungeon@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

it can be used to differentiate troll accounts from people that make generally liked comments
it gives users a rush and encourages participation
it can help with ranking

Now, that said, there are ways to game those things too, but that’s the concept and some of the bigger benefits.

[-] hatter@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

I still receive PMs every once in a while from random people on Reddit thanking me for comments that I've posted years ago. Those comments have less than 20 karma combined. I also have a comment saying "Nice." which contributes nothing and is sitting at almost 3000. Karma is meaningless.

[-] TheTeaMonster@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Nice.

[-] quinten@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

I'm not a karma whore, otherwise I would not post on Lemmy. But when you post something and you see that people agree with it is nice to see. I do not see the problem with karma.

[-] timothy1200@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Just out of curiosity, what did the devs do that was stupid?

[-] porkins@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

The devs hold extreme political views. They are on board with the Tiananmen Square massacre being necessary and shit like that. Like this post says though, there are plenty of instances that are totally run by normal people. Additionally, the Lemmy server code is open source, so that helps to ensure that it isn’t doing anything nefarious behind-the-scenes.

[-] cloudless@feddit.uk 0 points 1 year ago

https://lemmy.ml/post/1167199

More details in the link above, here is the introduction:

"My concern is that users are being banned and content is being removed on lemmy.ml citing a rule that is not publicly stated anywhere that I have seen.

Moderators of lemmy.ml are removing posts and comments which are critical of the Chinese government and are banning their authors."

[-] learningduck@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

So, the dev is another /u/spez.

[-] cloudless@feddit.uk -1 points 1 year ago

Source: https://kbin.social/m/lemmyworld@lemmy.world/t/47012/-/comment/196579

Text:

Here is one of the Lemmy devs denying that the Uyghur genocide in China is happening:

https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/xq49ct/deleted_by_user/iq954mu/

"The Uyghur genocide is as real as white genocide."

Here they are again denying it:

https://old.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/xq49ct/deleted_by_user/iq951cv/

"The holocaust was a genocide that actually happened, with all the evidence that goes along with it. There is no Uyghur genocide."

"Do you believe in anything as soon as the word "genocide" gets attached to it? What about "white genocide"? Are you a white genocide denier?"

And just so nobody can deny that parentis_shotgun is a Lemmy dev: -

“I’m one of the devs of Lemmy” https://i.imgur.com/5kp9BP0.png

Direct links to the posts will not work but still exist on the user’s profile page: https://old.reddit.com/user/parentis_shotgun/ - hold PgDn until comments stop loading then Control+F. In fact feel free to peruse their history in general - it’s quite interesting.

One of my favorite posts is their defense of the government of North Korea in /r/AskTankies: https://old.reddit.com/r/asktankies/comments/tb1836/okay_but_dprk_seriously/i04d1wu/

Now ask yourself why would someone who is not a Red Fascist Tankie piece of shit be answering questions on behalf of Tankies in /r/AskTankies while defending a totalitarian regime? Is it… perhaps because they’re in support of such a regime because they are in fact a Tankie piece of shit?

[-] Jackolantern@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Why, what’s wrong with lemmy.ml? Can someone eli5 me?

My account actually lives there but I also made a lemmy world one.

[-] porkins@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

In the lead developer’s GitHub, he sympathizes with Marxism including those that committed atrocities.. He apparently censors lemmy.ml with this in mind. Since it is open source though, I can trust that other instances might be better maintained. There is no way I’ll use any personal information in my signup because this all probably is going to China.

[-] BenHouston@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

my signup because this all probably is going to China.

China is sophisticated enough that it can vacuum up all the information it wants about without any involvement of a Lemmy.lm admin.

[-] ZheSquirrel@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Oh the ml in lemmy.ml is Marxist lenonist. That makes a lot of sense actually

[-] Fisch@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

You literally just made that up. I'm pretty sure they said at some point that they chose this simply cause its free.

[-] ZheSquirrel@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I was wrong, and it was a guess using context clues from the post I was replying too.

I didn't "make it up", I was just incorrect.

[-] Fisch@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago

I just get kinda pissed off at comments like that because I've been using lemmy for like 3 years now and they've never done something wrong but now there are some people that just say stuff about them that's not even true. Your comment wasn't the first like that after all.

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Leninist. Marxist Leninist is largely an oxymoron as Lenin just sort of ignored a lot of core things Marx discussed. Specifically going against many of them. There are many different Marxism derived ideologies that aren't ML and don't sympathize or apologize for the atrocities of ML or capitalist regimes. Please don't lump them all together.

As far as Leninist go. I agree with you 💯% though.

[-] Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

When it comes to physics Einstein has yet to be proven wrong for just about anything. When it came to politics and human nature. Einstein was not known to be any great judge. And even then. That's feinting praise. Einstein knew how to throw shade.

[-] Raphael@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

OP is annoyed because lemmy.ml devs are left-leaning and don't encourage bombing muslim countries, killing gays or locking black people in areas abandoned by the government.

[-] learningduck@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

They prevent incoming traffic from kbin. Sp, only leach kbin's contents, but not sharing back.

Some users accused developers as being tankies. Not sure how true this is.

[-] rainfern@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Oh they're absolutely tankies, dessalines website is crystal clear on that. To me this is simply a test of the fediverse. If it works as intended, the devs political orientation shouldn't matter. We'll see.

[-] assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Are we talking about the devs of Lemmy itself, or people specific to .ml?

[-] dot20@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

.ml is run by the Lemmy devs.

[-] Jackolantern@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Oh that’s not good. That goes against the spirit of federation. I wonder what their reasons are.

[-] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Nobody knows for sure, but my guess is they blocked any request with "Bot" in the header, and blocked the "KbinBot" by accident.

Just a guess though.

[-] Stampela@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Well, how do you feel about the Chinese government and the North Korean one? Good? Hopeful they expand? They do.

[-] Jackolantern@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Hi friend! I’m not sure how this is possibly related to my question. But thank you anyway.

[-] _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

I like the sh.itjust.works lemmy because of the name.

Also, apparently they're run with 99% renewable energy which is pretty cool.

[-] scarrexx@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 year ago

in the past 10 minutes i have had so many mixed emotions towards you.

I have come across your comments about 7 times and each time I either feel like fking you up or giving you a hug.

It's interesting how opinions of different people may differ or align depending on the context. Wars don't really matter if you think about it this way..

I propose a truce

[-] _haha_oh_wow_@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Fuck war, it's hell on Earth.

[-] lakv@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I propose a truce

meanwhile them, probably:

I don’t even know who you are.

[-] scarrexx@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

ikr... I'm sitting here developing a love-hate relationship with someone who is completely oblivious of my existence

[-] Rinesi@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 year ago

I’ve seen his comments often too. Kind of wild lol

[-] scarrexx@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago

Dude is a prolific commenter

[+] gelberhut@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

[deleted]

[-] oxf@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

People like this are actually the best ones to have running such a project. For them it's not just a pet-project to pass time, or a small way to show their skills. It's a necessary step for them, to be able to keep their online presence.

You'd be surprised at how effective people can be, when they're doing something out of spite.

[-] ToastyWaffle@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Seriously, if you don't understand the politics of the lemmy devs, you're functionally not understanding the point of lemmy. I think people believe in more socialist ideas than they've been lead to believe, especially with the rampant conflating of "leftists" in media to mix it with liberals as a tactic from the right. Lemmy is inherently political, and that's a GOOD thing.

[-] Eldritch@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Let's be honest. In Western Nations. People aren't taught what socialism is ever. I mean I can only honestly speak for myself and the 1980s. But all we were really taught about as far as socialism is that Commies/ML bad. Which is fair enough. Capitalists are bad too. The problem being that we were never educated in any way shape or form about other left-wing ideologies. We're to go out to the average person on the street and ask them to describe or define anarchism I can guarantee you. But most of them would have no real sense of the actual ideology and just give you some sort of reply coming down to chaos. Likewise the majority of them have no knowledge of or concept that libertarianism is a left-wing ideology. And has only been recently co-opted by the right wing to do damage in recent history. Almost every single person you ever asked about libertarianism would wrongly describe it as a right-wing ideology. And that is all on purpose. Because it behooves the wealthy to keep us uninformed.

[-] woelkchen@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

I just had a look at Lemmy's GitHub. Of the web interface alone, the second biggest contributor only joined two weeks ago. And there are many others. Those are new developers. So in essence: lemmy.ml admins are some of the software developers and are actually now in the minority, unless I missed something very obvious.

[-] jennwiththesea@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

This might be a stupid question, so forgive me. Who controls what happens to the actual software? Like, if a hundred great ideas get added to the GitHub, who controls which ones make it into the next version of Lemmy?

[-] ToastyWaffle@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Lemmy.ml devs own the repo, it's just licensed as open source software under the GNU AFFERO GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE. You can read the license in the repo files. So you can fork off it and run your own instance. If you go to GitHub.com/LemmyNet you see the two people who are members of the project, with the accounts, both have Fidel Castro avatars.

Personally I think having a bunch of socialists run the software, is by definition the best way to have it avoid corporate interests.

[-] learningduck@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

If the main project start doing something stupid, other devs can just fork the project as a new lemmy project with a new kind of government of how codes are merged into the project.

[-] solrize@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I actually haven't seen much mention of tankies on any Lemmy except as a joking reference here or there. I'm on lemmy.ml and the signup there said explicitly that it is a free software community. The signup had no particular reference to other politics, though I have no idea what is present in the admins' minds. There is also lemmygrad.ml which is explicitly socialist.

[-] grozzle@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

If you haven't seen tankies denying genocide and/or saying the victims brought it on themselves, then, I suspect you haven't been looking very far in the comments of the news community there, to be fair. There are a lot of posters who will defend Russia, China, Syria etc all day long. All their crimes are apparently made up by "western media", (as if Jimmy Dore's basement isn't in the west.)

Fortunately, they're getting super buttmad lately at being downvoted so much.