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The triple whammy of semiconductor shortage, pandemic and cryptocunts has really fucked PC gaming for a generation. The price is way out of line with the capabilities compared to a PS5.
I'm still on a 1060 for my PC, and it's only my GSync monitor that saves it. Variable frame rates really is great for all PC games tbh. You don't have to frig about with settings as much because Opening Bare Area runs at 60fps, but the later Hall of a Million Alpha Effects runs at 30. You just let it rip between 40 and 80, no tearing, and fairly even frame pacing. The old "is this game looking as good as it can on my hardware while still playing smoothly?" question goes away, because you just get extra frames instead, and just knock the whole thing down one notch when it gets too bad. I'm spending more time playing and less time tweaking and that can only be a good thing.
GPU prices being affordable is definitely not a priority of AMD's. They price everything to be barely competitive with the Nvidia equivalent. 10-15% cheaper for comparable raster performance but far worse RT performance and no DLSS.
Which is odd because back when AMD was in a similar performance deficit on the CPU front (Zen 1, Zen+, and Zen 2), AMD had absolutely no qualms or (public) reservations about pricing their CPUs where they needed to be. They were the value kings on that front, which is exactly what they needed to be at the time. They need that with GPUs and just refuse to go there. They follow Nvidia's pricing lead.
Corporations are not our friends. 🤷♂️
something many people overlook is how intertwined nvidia, intel and amd are. not only does the personnel routinely switch between those companies but they also have the same top share holders. there's no natural competition between them. it's like a choreograhped light saber fight where all of them are swinging but none seem to have any intention to hit flesh. a show to make sure nobody says the m word.
....mayfabe?
They're cycling out the old curse words. The Carlin ones are now fine. The new list is:
- Monopoly
- Union
- Rights
- Child labor
I agree, it's just strange from a business perspective too. Obviously the people in charge of AMD feel that this is the correct course of action, but they've been losing ground for years and years in the GPU space. At least as an outside observer this approach is not serving them well for GPU. Pricing more aggressively today will hurt their margins temporarily but with such a mindshare dominated market they need to start to grow their marketshare early. They need people to use their shit and realize it's fine. They did it with CPUs...
Say it loud and say it proud, cooperations are no one's friend!
100%. Outside of brand loyalty, I just simply don't see any reason to buy AMD's higher tier GPUs over Nvidia right now. And that's coming from a long, long time AMD fan.
Sure, their raster performance is comparable at times, but almost never actually beats out similar tiers from Nvidia. And regardless, DLSS virtually nullifies that, especially since the vast majority of games for the last 4 years or so now support it. So I genuinely don't understand AMD trying to price similarly to Nvidia. Their high end cards are inferior in almost every objective metric that matters to the majority of users, yet still ask for $1k for their flagship GPU.
Sorry for the tangent, I just wish AMD would focus on their core demographic of users. They have phenomenal CPUs and middling GPUs, so target your demographics accordingly, i.e. good value budget and mid-tier GPUs. They had that market segment on complete lockdown during the RX 580 era, I wish they'd return to that. Hell, they figured it out with their console APUs. PS5/XSX are crazy good value. Maybe their next generation will shift that way in their PC segment.
AMD's your friend now, but they're only undercutting NVIDIA like this to get on top of the market. Once they've done that, it will be NVIDIA doing the undercutting, and AMD will be the one clamping down and exploiting their position.
It has happened time and time again.
Don't simp for corporations. They'll never return the favour.
Generally agree, but when one of the two participants in a market is actively hostile to users and the other is actually competing for market share, seems like that's worth acknowledging. Especially when we so many examples of either outright collusion or as soon as one corporation introduces a new hostile feature all the others in the market follow.
On that note, I'm waiting for the day Nvidia announces a subscription service for unlocking cores or clock speeds.
Yeah, don't be loyal is exactly what this post is about imo. Switch to whoever is treating you better. Every company eventually gets so big they can bully from the top. As soon as they do that you just go to the scrappy competitor that's actually providing higher value.
Nvidia used to have the better price to performance and compatibility so I was 'team' Nvidia for a long time and just didn't consider AMD, even after they became more viable. Now I'll consider switching to AMD. Open source especially gets my attention
There is no doubt that AMD is a better company than NVIDIA in OSS terms.
But don't simp for a company, vote with your wallet and always look for the best and consumer friendly product.
For now, not gonna lie AMD is pretty rad, but I hope next generation Intel GPUs are competitive.
I think AMD is a great competitor and we need more competition to lay it to NVIDIA and AMD as well, BUT HOLY FUCK. I can't stand AMD's software/control panel vs NVIDIA's.
I just switched from nvidia to and and I have the exact opposite feeling lol
Aye. The Nvidia control center was cool when I installed it for my Ti 4600 in 2002 and not much has changed. I'm not particularly fond but the aesthetics of the Radeon software, but it beats the heck out of the semi-useless GeForce experience. I have to make an account just to see if there's a driver update available? I can't even control fan speeds in Windows without third party software?
They're both bad but in comparison Nvidia's offering is garbage.
AMD's had some buggy drivers and misleading graphs, but they're overall infinitely more consumer-friendly than Nvidia
It is the lesser of two evils imo. Not saying that AMD is any good, their alternatives are just that bad.
AMD is the only real option for those of us using Linux. Nvidia's weirdnesses regularly fill up support tickets on Linux forums it's not even funny
Big corps are not your friend, but as a wise man once said, fuck Nvidia 🖕
Am I having a stroke, or does that actually say "here's the our source code"?
That is what you have to do if you're behind the competition. Don't think they'll keep this up for long if they happen to be the industry leader.
Always back the underdoge
As an AMD fanboy, I approve of this.
And now, for a serious note: been running linux daily for almost 20 years and AMD machines are, per my personal experience, always smoother to install, run and maintain.
I just bought my first Nvidia card since the TNT2. Up to today I always looked for the most FPS for the money.
This time my focus was on energy efficiency, and the AMD cards suck at the moment. 4070 about 200w, 6800 about 300w. AMD really has to fix that.
Regarding DLSS: I activated it in control, and it looks... off? Edges seem unsharp, not all the time, but often, sometimes only for a second, sometimes longer. I believe it is the only game I have that has support for it, but I'm not impressed.
At OP: Brand loyality is the worst. Neither Nvidia nor AMD like you. Get the best value for your money.
Btw, Nvidia needed an account to let me use their driver. Holy shit, that's fucked up!
There is a way around the account requirement. I uninstalled GeForce experience forever ago
Keen to see how FSR3 ends up looking, if it comes within decent parity to DLSS3 it's going to be amazing, considering it's hardware agnostic so theoretically console devs can use it to boost framerates.
We've come a long, long way, baby.
Amd's epyc server cpus would be like 64 Machamp. Mf is huge and requires a hell of a cooler. See them at the datacenter I work at and when I opened the server up I thought I was looking at a turbocharged car engine or something.
I'm still using my EVGA GeForce 1070. When it's time to upgrade, I'm going with AMD.
Corporations aren't your friend.
My rig is full AMD (5800x/5700xt), but that's purely because they happened to be the better value at the time. The second they get a lead in the consumer GPU market (which they likely will since nvidia simply doesn't care about it vs the ML market now) prices are going to rise again.
And don't pretend that these prices are anything resembling affordable. That would be when you could get a legitimately mid-range card for ~$150 (rx580).
Corporations aren’t your friend.
Correct. But AMD is doing things that benefit FOSS and Linux, where as nVidia is a menace. Intel is also doing pretty decent, they just need to catch up in terms of driver features.
AMD has been great and all buy their prices are NOT affordable. They've been jaking up their prices like everyone else in the last years. Don't paint them as the heroes.
They are still much less than nvidia...
I like AMD but they're still overpriced, nothing compelling in the $200-300 range since 5600 XT and RX 580, and I keep hearing stories about unoptimized drivers (can't confirm myself cause I'm still on 5600 XT with mostly older games). They're the lesser of two evils, but they're far from chad-doge behavior at this point.
I am super happy with my 7950X3D. However, their GPU drivers still need some work for the 7900XTX.
I used to have lots of driver crashing and weirdness on my RX 580, but I've had mostly smooth sailing with my 6600 XT.
Have I just had bad luck with my AMD products?
I've had four Nvidia GPU/Intel CPU computers with no issues.
I've had three AMD GPU/AMD CPU computers and they all have been loud and hot and slightly unstable. A bit cheaper sure, but I rather have a silent and stable experience.
This has made me see amd as the inferior lowbudget crap. But maybe I have just bought from the wrong manufacturer or something.
Where I can find the source?
As far as I searched what is free software is the Vulkan implementation that runs on top of the intrinsic GPU and drivers (that have DRM and no source code).
The intrinsic GPU drivers on the kernel are still close source. So basically AMD and NVIDIA are the same. They both have source for some engines implementation but both kernel drivers are close source.
https://github.com/GPUOpen-Drivers/
amdgpu is a blob.
I'm missing something?
AMDGPU is open source: https://github.com/radeonopencompute/rock-kernel-driver/, it's also upstreamed into Linux. The firmware is a binary blob though.
I have read many of the comments in the thread, but there is a very basic question I hope someone can help me with: what does the OP even mean?
I know what AMD is and what they do, but "taking W's"? And "giving them away"?
"W" is a letter often used to represent a "Win" which I assume is what's meant here since that's what AMD have been doing.
I get it, however when I'm paying $1000+ for a GPU, I want the best for my money now. Not take part in some bigger than me ploy to even out companies.
Government regulations > a few people buying a worse GPU
My problem when buying my last GPU is that AMD's answer to CUDA, ROCm, was just miles behind and not really supported on their consumer GPUs. From what I se now that has changed for the better, but it's still hard to trust when CUDA is so dominant and mature. I don't want to reward NVIDIA, but I want to use my GPU for some deep learning projects too and don't really have a choice at the moment.
I've become more and more convinced that considerations like yours, which I do not understand since I don't rely on GPUs professionally, have been the main driver of Nvidia's market share. It makes sense.
The online gamer talk is that people just buy Nvidia for no good reason, it's just internet guys refusing to do any real research because they only want a reason to stroke their own egos. This gamer-based GPU market is a loud minority whose video games don't seem to rely too heavily on any card features for decent performance, or especially compatibility, with what they're doing. Thus, the constant idea that people "buy Nvidia for no good reason except marketing".
But if AMD cards can't really handle things like machine learning, then obviously that is a HUGE deficiency. The public probably isn't certain of its needs when it spends $400 on a graphics card, it just notices that serious users choose Nvidia for some reason. The public buys Nvidia, just in case. Maybe they want to do something they haven't thought of yet. I guess they're right. The card also plays games pretty well, if that's all they ever do.
If you KNOW for certain that you just want to play games, then yeah, the AMD card offers a lot of bang for your buck. People aren't that certain when they assemble a system, though, or when they buy a pre-built. I would venture that the average shopper at least entertains the idea that they might do some light video editing, the use case feels inevitable for the modern PC owner. So already they're worrying about maybe some sort of compatibility issue with software they haven't bought, yet. I've heard a lot of stories like yours, and so have they. I've never heard the reverse. I've never heard somebody say they'd like to try Nvidia but they need AMD. Never. So everyone tends to buy Nvidia.
The people dropping the ball are the reviewers, who should be putting a LOT more emphasis on use cases like yours. People are putting a lot of money into labs for exhaustive testing of cooling fans for fuck’s sake, but just running the same old gaming benchmarks like that's the only thing anyone will ever do with the most expensive component in the modern PC.
I've also heard of some software that just does not work without CUDA. Those differences between cards should be tested and the results made public. The hardware journalism scene needs to stop focusing so hard on damned video games and start focusing on all the software where Nvidia vs AMD really does make a difference, maybe it would force AMD to step up its game. At the very least, the gamebros would stop acting like people buy Nvidia cards for no reason except some sort of weird flex.
No, dummy, AMD can't run a lot of important shit that you don't care about. There's more to this than the FPS count on Shadow of the Tomb Raider.