It's not just men. My mother was pushed down the FaceTube YouBook weaponized disinformation rabbit hole.
It's outrage porn... They LOVE being angry at 'the system' or 'corporations' or 'the WHO' etc. etc.
Yes, there's a lot of stupid corrupt shit going on, but posting on social media is the most impotent thing a person could do to make a difference. (Yes, I appreciate the irony.)
Yup, we had a disagreement about the electrical grid, and she insisted that green power would result in province-wide blackouts every night or whenever the wind stopped blowing. I sent her the power generation mix from the Electricity System Operator, showing that renewables accounted for a single-digit percentage point of the generating capacity of the province... Nope, "Why can't you just respect what I believe?" "Because you're full of shit?" click
Ontario has a lot higher percentage than that, and we don't have nightly blackouts
..just in case you want another data point :P
Frankly, I don’t trust anyone who’s not angry at corporations, but otherwise I tale your point.
We need to find a way against algorithms that benefit radicalization.
The only winning move is not to play. Don't use platforms that do this.
That does not solve anything, since people are drawn to platforms with easy accessible content they enjoy. People will use those platforms. The problem is that algorithms will recommend you radicalizing content. And it's an extremely complex task to solve. I would have no idea where to beginn, except better education - but that's something that will take a generation to work out.
If the system is so fucked that it'd "take a generation to work out", maybe the system isn't worth saving in the first place. We're talking social media websites here, not something like hospitals or schools that are required for a functioning society.
It took us hundred thousand years to figure out that hitting children as education is bad. We might not be the brightest.
More serious - sure, but it's not that it's easy to get rid of social media. Sure in china you can just forbid them, but they go more the way of using them to spread state propaganda. And in most democracies, people won't support a blanket ban - I wouldn't.
Treat them like cigarettes. Systems designed to amplify "engagement" are rage-farms, and bad for your brain. Limit their marketing, de-platform the companies, and commit to public health measures that educate people on that fact.
You could outlaw for-profit participation in the sector. Facebook would suck way less if it didn’t have to increase profits for shareholders constantly.
That would be a marvelous solution for sure (if we manage to close loopholes), but you will need one hell of a salesmen to sell it to general population.
Not using the platforms is a personal solution for any individual who wants to escape, not a general solution. For "don't use the platforms" to work as a solution for the masses, so few people would use the platforms that the platforms would cease to exist.
so few people would use the platforms that the platforms would cease to exist
I'm genuinely failing to see the downside here of facebook, twitter, and the like ceasing to exist.
I'm genuinely failing to see the downside here of facebook, twitter, and the like ceasing to exist.
Me neither. I should have been clearer. Despite all the bad things they do to make things worse, the problem is not the existence of the platforms. The problem is people. I was alluding to the fact that if there were enough people who recognized the problems of these platforms and acted on that, those kinds of platforms would never have arisen in the first place.
The various nasty types have always found ways to spread their messages, convert people to their cause, and convince others to do the actual dirty work.
Throughout history, every time a technology was introduced to increase the speed and geographical distribution of a message, extremism founded on false conspiracy, propaganda, disinformation, and misinformation has at least temporarily increased. There are really simple explanations for why that is. First, we have the problems of human cognition. Our brains are really lousy at identifying cause and effect, separating meaningful patterns from useless ones, and creating and maintaining accurate memories.
Second, truth requires verification. Verification cannot happen without investigation and communication among investigators. This means that verification will always happen much slower than message distribution. That is why a lie can circle the globe before the truth can get out of the starting blocks.
As bad as these platforms are, it's important to remember that their problematic algorithms are little more than codification of the methods that propagandists have used for centuries. Rush Limbaugh brought these concepts to a peak before most people had ever heard of the internet. Usenet was filled with the same stuff we see on Facebook, and there were no algorithms or central systems, just people doing what people do.
I think the identity of men is unstable nowdays.
A lot of people don't know what is to be a man today, so they go back to the old ways when it's was simple for then and bad for woman.
The nuances and uncertainty of modern life is too much for some people usually need success model's to follow to feel safe.
Why are men always obsessing about what it means to be a man? I think that was one of the most commonly asked questions on reddit. Never in my life have I asked what it means to be a woman, I find the question nonsensical. I'm a person and I can do whatever I like and being a woman isn't the defining feature of my identity.
Guy here, we're not obsessed. Society is, we are basically told and enforced on since birth that a man does certain things and acts a certain way. And if he doesn't then not only is he not a man, but is also a failure.
I can personally vouch for the fact as well that it's not just "toxic masculinity" but it's partners and friends that are women as well that if you show any amount of "non-men" attributes or emotions they will drop you or ridicule you and tell you to "man up"
Women claim they want men to be more open and exposed among many other things. But I've then seen the exact same women act disgusted by a guy or look down on them for doing exactly that.
Thankfully I didn't get caught in that trash red pill community cause their ideas are awful and won't fix anything, it's all a grift... But to a young guy that doesn't know any better it is frankly very obvious why they would choose to believe in that sort of thing.
Men have no positive support networks that won't have the chance to just put us down anyways. We have no identity besides the trash society brainwashed us with at birth. Unlike women we don't have nearly the same amount of positive reinforcement from anyone to break the traditionalist molds we were born into which also reinforces the ideas that men shouldn't talk about our feelings.
And to top it off we are constantly portraited and made to feel like monsters everywhere we go because of the fearmongering media. Seriously I'm not horribly ugly, about average, but the looks and body language women give me just for walking and passing by them on the sidewalk (if they don't cross the street and walk on the other side) is... Dehumanizing and there's nothing I can do about it.
None of this is isolated to me either, this is a constant throughline of common experience from every guy I've ever meet.
Society needs to be more supportive of men that want to break traditionalist roles as well as stop being dismissive to mens issues. We need more good role models for young men, or else we will continue to see an uptick in this red pill trash. But that won't happen if we keep isolating men and brushing off their issues as is so common.
Since the very beginning, men are told to not to cry or man up and don't talk about feelings, because that is gay, later he notices that he can't express love the same way a woman do, then he learn's people respect him more if he is logical and uncaring.
These are all stereotypes men deal with so they think being a man is being like that. To change they need help from society. So they ask how to be a man is like: how a respectful and flourished man act this day and age?
My personal opinion is to change society, the better behavior need to be motivated. If being a confident asshole is paying off men will be like that.
Everyone is different. There are many millions of non-man-identifying folks trying really hard to figure out what it means to be whatever they are.
Men are no different, just so happens we get pretty toxic when we are unfocused and unsure. Not an excuse, but that's what we're seeing.
Also these articles make it seem like all men struggle with this. Most folks just wake up and get on with their day, much as you describe your experience is.
This is a good point with the additional wrinkle that traditional male identity has always been threatened and unstable. By women, by gays, by peace… a core component of the traditional male identity is being under attack (and thus being defensive).
Nothing modern has changed this. The problem is the traditional male identity itself.
Trump did the same with white American males.
What are the steps are to undo toxic radicalization?
Education, the problem is they don't want to change
Education comes in many forms not just formal
Interacting with a large variety of people can really help to bring them back
But yeah, they have to be willing to change if not then it's going to go poorly
Maybe they can get their GED and higher ed while they're in prison for the various crimes they commit.
Meaningful connection. A lot of these people are in these places because that's what they lack and think they've found.
Similarly to cults, few people escape these mindsets without somebody reaching out to help them.
The truly terrifying thing is, as the article shows, a lot of them are already retreating from their loved ones. After that, who is left to be able to help them out?
Conversely de-radicalization may not be needed.
I think people sometimes over-invest in the concept of redeeming these people. But actually focusing on them and their problems is doubling down on the validity and importance of their positions.
I advocate ignoring them and focusing on creating political power that we can actually use to advance our causes. If they come along, great. If not, consign them to the dustbin of history.
This is complicated when the people involved are emotionally close to you. But in general this is my philosophy.
I mean that's great and all, except these people that you've consigned to the dustbin of history are now going to actively fight against your causes.
I think that some of them are too far gone but really this toxic environment needs to be fixed or else worse things will come from it. When you say "they should be ignored", that's part of the environment that causes these men to become the next shooter, or maybe just jump off a bridge because they have a conscience.
Whether you like it or not, you need these people to make the right choices, and part of that starts by fostering a more inclusive environment.
The entire KICK platform is to intentionally fuck up kids and twenty somethings.
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