this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023
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Baldur's Gate 3 is currently taking up all the storage space I would give to Bethesda's sci-fi RPG.

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[–] MJBrune@beehaw.org 84 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

1 TB SSDs are 35-60 dollars.
1 TB HDDs are 22-50 dollars.
2 TB HDDs are 40-65 dollars.
2 TB SDDs are 60-90 dollars.

Clearly, price shouldn't be an issue because one of these drives that give you 10 times the storage is the cost of 1 new release, and the theoretical person who just bought BG3 and Starfield just spent 120 dollars minimum. So theoretical person let's do some math!

Seems really silly to complain that you ran out of space on your PC. Get another drive. If you've filled up your SATA ports, get a PCIe SATA card. If you have all your onboard SATA slots full, plus your PCIe slots are full, plus you've upgraded all the drives you could to at least 1 TB, that typically gives you at least 2-4 TB total. BG3 is taking up 150 GB that you reserved for gaming. Uninstall it if you want to play Starfield. If you don't want to play Starfield that badly then you have your answer.

Clearly, the real answer is that this person needs another drive in their computer. They act like the OS drive is the only thing that could possibly exist in a computer. Worst case, go get a USB 3 drive and toss Starfield on that.

[–] Caligvla@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I legitimately hope you're trolling.

[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Nah, you can find people complaining about games being too big in cycles going all the way back to the beginning of retail PC gaming. I remember Screen Savers built their "Ultimate Gaming PC" in like 1998 with a few gigabytes of storage, and they said something like, "I know that seems like a lot, but games these days can be hundreds of megabytes, so we want to be able to just fit them all". Baldur's Gate 3 and Starfield are both large games. Not every game is that big, nor are these games necessarily doing something wrong by being that big.

SSD prices finally started dropping rapidly, and HDDs are even cheaper, for games like Sea of Stars or 30XX that don't need read speed performance, both of which have options to extend laptop storage space like the author's use case.

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[–] HidingCat@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

The sentiment isn't wrong. Space is cheap now. Had Star field come out when SSDs were having GPU-like pricing I'd be more outraged, but prices are falling and having multi-terabyte systems shouldn't be an issue. Way cheaper than GPUs that can play the game, that's for sure.

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[–] manapropos@lemmy.basedcount.com 19 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Look at moneybags over here throwing around cash instead of just making space

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[–] bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I've got a better idea. You want to make your game stupidly large? Ok fine, sell me a physical copy pre-installed on a fast USB stick. Job done.

[–] TehPers@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Read speeds from a USB stick are incomparably slower than most hard drives. The USB 3.0 specification has a theoretical maximum transfer rate of 5Gb/sec (~600MB/s). By comparison, my PCIe 4.0 NVMe (I believe most laptops these days come with NVMe storage? Could be wrong) has a read performance, reported by CrystalDiskMark, of 7.3GB/s (that's a big B, not a little b, and looking at 1MiB sequential 1 thread 8 queues). In other words, my hard drive's measured performance is 12x faster than the theoretical maximum throughput of a USB drive. This also doesn't take into account things like DirectStorage, which some games have started to adopt.

I think realistically games should consider separating the higher quality assets from the low quality assets intended for lower performance systems, and make them separate downloads. HD assets could be a free "DLC" on Steam, for example.

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[–] NuPNuA@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Given that Starfield has a requirement for an SSD even in minimum requirements, would even USB3 be fast enough?

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[–] stopthatgirl7@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (5 children)

It’s a touch trickier to upgrade a laptop, which the writer is talking about.

[–] averyminya@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'd be inclined to agree but I'm frankly somewhat at a loss from this articles perspective. Why a 256gb boot drive in 2023? I'm only assuming, based on the math. If it were 512GB I'd assume they'd be able to shuffle off more data. If it's important files you need to access, store them on an external HDD? If they're a gamer and they know space is an issue, a SSD enclosure is not much more added cost to a 1TB drive and it solves the issue...

Like I said, I understand the intent about game sizes. But people playing BG3 or Starfield on their laptop are going to have other issues on top of storage, since most laptops have a pretty linear upgrade path. If you have the 256gb model the rest of the hardware probably reflects that pricepoint. Like @bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com said, at a certain point the idea of a game coming preloaded on a USB drive makes sense, but until then the ease for general use of an SSD enclosure makes more sense.

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[–] fushuan@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

They are a game reviewer, it's kinda embarrassing that they don't hve a decent setup to playtest the games they review.

[–] omeara4pheonix@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No it's not, unless they have a MacBook. And even in that case it's not hard to find an external SSD with a thunderbolt or USB3.2 interface.

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[–] NuPNuA@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Is it that hard in the days of solid state NVME drives? You just pop open the hatch and pop them in the slot.

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[–] ithas@artemis.camp 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

I'm kind of sad about how large games have become and how little goes into optimizing that since "space is cheap"; though it seems people don't really care about the bandwidth (environmental) cost of downloading that now that everything has gone digital (not that I'm saying physical doesn't have waste).

I just kind of wish there were alternates, maybe high-res (free) DLC packs or audio localization packs which I feel like were done in the past but never really became a thing. I find myself sticking to indie games that are only hundreds of MBs instead.

I don't think the article provides any conclusions besides beat games faster to delete them to clear space.

[–] ono@lemmy.ca 21 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

how little goes into optimizing that since “space is cheap”

More and more developers seem to assume everyone else can afford what they consider to be cheap, and feel entitled to gobble up all the resources on other people's systems as if they aren't needed for anything else.

And speaking of environmental costs, there's also the pollution and e-waste generated by constantly pushing people to upgrade their hardware instead of optimizing the software.

As a developer myself, I find it embarrassing and sad.

[–] Chozo@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

More and more developers seem to assume everyone else can afford what they consider to be cheap, and feel entitled to gobble up all the resources on other people’s systems as if they aren’t needed for anything else.

It's adding insult to injury when most of these games are now also launching at $70-80 these days, too.

[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I'm fully behind the idea that you should be able to opt for not downloading the biggest texture files and 3D assets, if you're gonna play at low settings, anyway.

But it's worth noting that "optimizing" the file sizes of high-fidelity games isn't really possible. You can't compress textures or 3D assets the same way you might an RGB image. Game textures contain a lot more layers than just color, in modern games they can contain material, depth and specularity maps, just to name a few. And that's before considering any accompanying bre-baked lighting data that entire levels may come with, which trades in the need to real-time render stuff for doing it in advance and storing how something is supposed to look, and shipping it alongside the game.

None of this can be easily compressed. It has to be retained losslessly, or you risk rendering artefacts.

Also, most game distribution services will send you an AGGRESSIVELY compressed (as in packed as a whole, using great amounts of CPU to pack it smaller without data loss) format, which your PC/console unpacks as it downloads. They too have every reason to save bandwidth.

But even then, you seldom see data savings of more than 10-30%. There just aren't that many corners to cut.

[–] CleoTheWizard@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago

I’m not a game dev, but from my modding experience it depends on the game.

MOST of the games that have these insane file sizes actually do it to cut down on processing and on load time and reduce pop-in. If a texture or level doesn’t need any decompression, it loads faster. So entirely depends on the asset. So a lot of games do still compress textures. That’s why there’s a discrepancy between the data downloaded in steam and the actual runtime storage requirement.

The 3D models themselves are usually lower space. As is dialog and audio. Though all of those will be mildly compressed probably.

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[–] query@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Space might be cheap, but SSDs are too small for the slot they take up that could've had a much bigger HDD, and now graphics cards are so big there's physically less room for disks and cables too.

I don't want all SSDs to have room for all the games and nothing else.

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[–] manapropos@lemmy.basedcount.com 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’d love to play through the Mass Effect remastered collection on my steam deck but it’s ridiculous that it makes you download all 3 games (100+ GB). On the other hand, Halo MCC is actually good about this and lets you download only the games you want to play at the moment

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[–] stagen@feddit.dk 27 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Whom ever wrote this article is a massive idiot.

[–] z3n0x@feddit.de 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Seems like the common vibe in "gaming" articles lately. Low hanging fruit Clickbait slathered in ads and autoplaying videos.

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[–] LoamImprovement@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Yeah, like I picked up an 8TB SSD for like $300 the other day to move shit off of three old platter drives, I still have room to spare. A 1TB is like $60, that's less than the cost of the game.

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[–] Disgusted_Tadpole@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

My man is trying to install both games on a PlayStation One memory card

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 24 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Baldur's Gate 3 is currently taking up all the storage space I would give to Bethesda's sci-fi RPG.

Damn dude. You only have ~200GB of storage space? Upgrade your HDD/SSD, for real. I don't even review games for a living and I have 2.5TB. I can definitely fit both games. And then some.

This artificial battle of the VASTLY DIFFERENT STYLE RPGs is fucking bizarre and just a made up issue to get clicks, I swear to Christ.

[–] Sina@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Starfield has ssd listed as "required". Even if it runs from a HDD it might be horrible, like with No Man's Sky.

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[–] twistedtxb@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 year ago (8 children)

That's a silly excuse. At roughly $20 / TB, a 150gb game shouldn't be an issue

[–] zeroblood@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Where do you get your hard drives? Cheapest 1tb SSD I can get is $65, and the cheapest 1tb nvme drive is $80.

[–] Hypx@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When was the last time you shopped for an SSD? Cheapest 1TB NVMe are around $35.

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[–] bamboo@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It does depend on the device though. A desktop PC can easily be upgraded with a new drive, but a laptop it may not be as easy, or in some cases, not possible at all. Could always use an external drive, but those are usually more expensive and quite inconvenient if you move the laptop around.

[–] spriteblood@kbin.social 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If somebody can point me in the direction of a $20 1TB NVME for my Steam Deck and a free transfer tool please hmu

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[–] sludge@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

like i usually hate the whole, "buy a 2tb ssd, its only like $60" line. like to a lot of people that isn't something you can just drop casually for a video game (especially on top of the price of the game itself!) but I don't really think thats the perspective this writer is coming from.

[–] Limeaide@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Same. Those comments are coming from a place of privilege.

A lot of people in a first world country can't afford splurges like that anymore. In third world countries it's even worse. Because of import fees, scarcity, and price gauging, a $60 SSD can easily become $100+. In some countries that's over half of the average monthly income

[–] Vordus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 points 1 year ago

Counterpoint: If not having room for a $70 game because there's a $60 game already on there (which also isn't normally a problem for him because his main gaming system is his $500 gaming console) is an issue, then the article is already being written from a position of privilege.

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[–] PotjiePig@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago

Sounds like you need to finish BG3 before starting Starfield.

[–] KaijuKoala@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No space? Lol, clearly you’ve never played ARK Survival Evolved

[–] BigBananaDealer@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

isnt that only 400 something GB?

[–] HurlingDurling@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Content behind an anti-blocker wall. How much space does this game take?

[–] CraigeryTheKid@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

PC is about 130 GB I believe.

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[–] MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

There was talk about making "steam deck optimized" versions of games that would ditch high resolution assets as they would be pointless on a 720p display. Nothing seems to have materialized.

That said, there are reasons why games are taking more and more space. Game assets cannot be compressed the same way image files intended for humans can. They have to be stored losslessly, or there WILL be rendering artefacts. And a material or texture in a game is composed of a lot more layers than just an RGB image (normal maps, specular maps, material maps, depth maps). And modern game-engines can pre-bake a lot of things that otherwise would have to be rendered in real-time. That pre-baked render data has to be stored, preferably in high resolution to avoid aliasing, and shipped along with all the other game files.

Games aren't ballooning in size for no reason. Stuff like pre-baking essentially trades storage for the ability to get the same looks for less processing. More data layers in textures and materials allows rendering to take shortcuts in how the appearance of a surface is calculated, etc. etc. etc.

But none of this would prevent the option to not download these resource files for ALL detail levels. If you're not gonna run a game on ultra textures, you don't need those files sitting on your drive.

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[–] account_93@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Get an external SSD if you can't open the laptop, Modern laptops will have a fast usb c port available (I use mine for VR).

They also talk about playing ToTK on the laptop too...

"Will Tears of the Kingdom take up the space they otherwise would have occupied?"

I know you can emulate but this writer wtf

[–] donuts@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

Honestly I'm much more worried about bullshit fucking Xfinity bandwidth caps than drive space.

[–] Computerchairgeneral@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean, I can kind of understand why giant RPGS like BG3 and Starfield need to be so large, but it just feels like every game nowadays is going to eat up a huge chunk of your storage no matter what it is. With both console and PC games moving to SSD as the standard storage medium, I'm hoping that developers will actually figure out how to optimize for storage space, but I'm not holding my breath.

[–] Hypx@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Starfield heavily leans on procedural generation. It would be many times bigger if it didn't. BG3 has something like 170 hours of recorded dialogue. Cutting down means getting of features.

So no, there is no room for optimization here. These games are just going to be that big, period. People just need to accept that they will have to get giant SSDs in the future.

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[–] WeLoveCastingSpellz@lemmy.fmhy.net 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Baldurs gate 3 is the vetter game anyway soo.. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ my personal plan is to jump on starfield much later when the bugs are fixed and the modding community is matured a little

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