this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2024
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[–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 32 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

From the tone of the article, it sounds like it was from shrapnel or avoiding action as a result of a Russian cruise missile being shot down in close proximity, rather than Russia directly shooting down the F-16. This has happened before to Ukrainian pilots.

[–] BobDole@hexbear.net 45 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Anti-air missiles use proximity fuses and take out aircraft with shrapnel and shockwave. It’s way easier than trying to get a direct hit, and just as effective. So, saying the plane was killed by shrapnel doesn’t preclude it from being a Russian anti-air kill.

[–] Adkml@hexbear.net 32 points 2 months ago

Yea this is like saying frag grenades don't kill the soldier just got really sleepy after being hit by scraps of metal after a grenade thrown by the enemy spontaneously disassembled in his general vicinity.

[–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 25 points 2 months ago

Of course, my comment is more on the tone of the article and the fact that the F-16s were suspected to be operating far away from the frontlines, so a direct shoot down sounds unlikely to me.

[–] companero@hexbear.net 25 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's a possibility, but it's also very likely that Russia was expecting F-16s in the sky attempting to shoot down the cruise missiles, and therefore had air defense or fighter jets prepared to shoot them down.

[–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

The main problem is how far away from the frontlines the F-16s were suspected to be operating from. This makes a SAM kill basically impossible, Russia would've had to sneak a full air defence system hundreds of kilometres into Ukraine beyond the frontline to achieve such. That means that the only possibility would be an air to air kill, and while Russia has long range air to air R-37 missiles with a maximum range of over 320km/200 miles in testing, this would still require Russian fighter jets to fly deep into Ukraine's territory without being detected or shot down to achieve such a kill. Realistically the only jet that could do that is the Su-57 with its stealth capabilities, however Russia only has a handful of these planes and uses them in very limited roles. A risky mission well into enemy territory to bag a kill on an F-16 sounds unlikely to me, especially since if such happened I'd expect it to be all over Russian media.

[–] companero@hexbear.net 16 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That could be why the air force commander was fired. The F-16s could have been operating in a risky area.

[–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 15 points 2 months ago

I actually read an interesting theory on that. Zelensky has a propagandist that he uses to set the official narrative in Ukraine. This propagandist made up the story about the F-16 being shot down in a friendly fire incident by a patriot missile. The head of the air force called out this fake story. Thus, he had to be fired by Zelensky.

[–] ShariaLawZ@hexbear.net 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Russia shot a fighter jet down over Kiev from over 200 km away with an S300 at the start of the war

https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/russia-sets-world-record-lands-first-aa-kill-at-range-of-217

[–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yes that's the record SAM kill. But 200km is not enough range to strike fighters in Western Ukraine, where the F-16s were suspected to be operating at. You'd need 600+km of range to do that.

[–] ShariaLawZ@hexbear.net 12 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I heard the only anti-air happening in Ukraine right now was in Kiev and Kursk. Where was this F16 downed? I'm willing to bet it was around Kiev, which can be hit from Belgorod region.

[–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I heard the only anti-air happening in Ukraine right now was in Kiev and Kursk.

With the widespread Russian missile attacks that have been hitting as far west as Lviv, I'd doubt that. The F-16 was reportedly downed during one of these attacks. The F-16s are suspected to be based out of Ivano-Frankivsk, based on geolocation of Ukrainian propaganda videos. RIA Novosti also reported that Russia hit a hangar there where they suspected the F-16s were stored.

[–] ShariaLawZ@hexbear.net 11 points 2 months ago

Yea those widespread attacks have met no resistance whatsoever except in Kiev. Reports are that Russian drones and missiles elsewhere are completely unhindered