good advice: don't engage on deprogram about religion, while they are some people with correct takes there, you can more often read takes like the defence of tongue sucking or absolute nuclear takes that you can't become marxist without religion or that religion is inherently materialist

Oof. It doesn't help that at least 2 of the 3 bois are religious. Hakim is Muslim and Yugopnik is Eastern Orthodox. I don't know about JT.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yeah every time you write something critical about religion they are like "Hakim is muslim" as if it didn't led him to some outright wrong takes too including straight up proselitysm once.

[–] heggs_bayer@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

I know he has some cringe takes on religion, but I didn't know he proselitized once.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Something around last year. I searched it since i'm fairly sure i commented on it but reddit search is utter shit. I think it was in comments to one of his youtube videos and then it surfaced once or twice on reddit sub.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Found it

Op have screens in question, in second you can see how Hakim says Quran is his favourite book and he reccomend reading and even in-depth studying it to all visitors of his channel, which is basically proselitism especially since i very much doubt anyone coming to his channel regardless of option cames for hearing about his lord and saviour. On third you see him reccomending some fascist conversion story. Plus massively overestimating role islam plays in liberation of the people in the region and not mentioning how it even is on this position.

Thread below is also full of nuclear takes including the one about "materialist religion"

[–] heggs_bayer@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

JFC, you weren't kidding.

Thread below is also full of nuclear takes including the one about "materialist religion"

Religious organizations are largely idealist sure, but that doesn't mean the religion itself is.

Buddhism for example has "dependent origination" the "spiritual plane" is created by and dependently originates from the material brain and is confined to it within the long discourses of the Pali canon, that's strict materialism with materialism taking precedence.

Christ was all about standing with workers and exploited and marginalized people against exploiters, landlords, money changers, the rich.

Judaism and Islam have their materialist socialist sects, as do pagans of various varieties.

Has this person never heard of utopian socialism?

There’s also the whole thing about dialectical materialism not being an ontology, and Marx warned people to not fall into the trap of vulgar materialism, which itself is a metaphysical position masquerading as materialism.

The vulgar materialism understander has logged on.

It would be one thing if they were criticizing certain methods of religious suppression being counterproductive. Mishandling of the religious problem has blown up in peoples' faces before (I've heard communist Albania criticized for thin, for instance, but I'm unfamiliar with the details and can't really say more). Trying to pass off religion as materialist is a whole other matter.

[–] PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Has this person never heard of utopian socialism?

A lot of such cases there.

The vulgar materialism understander has logged on.

1909: Lenin heavily expanded on this in "Materialism and empiriocriticism" to show how much danger was in trying to smuggle even a hint of idealism into marxism, which was then confirmed many many times not only by the very people in question (Bogdanov, Lunacharsky and similar) being the shaky, unprincipled marxists, but also later too by failure of many other projects, most relevant of them here being Arab socialism which was promising but ended up largely because religious opposition and funding of said opposition by imperialists.

2023: People will tell you that it's "vulgar materialism" for not outright embracing religion.

[–] HexReplyBot@hexbear.net 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

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[–] TheBroodian@hexbear.net 1 points 2 months ago

Imo Hakim deserves a pass on this matter. I don't think he's wrong at all when he comments about the role that Islam has played in the resistance of peoples in his region against empire, resistance against war that has been very up close to him personally.

[–] TheBroodian@hexbear.net 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yugopnik is religious? I had no idea

[–] heggs_bayer@hexbear.net 2 points 2 months ago

He mentions it in a passing comment in this recent video (I can't be assed to find the timestamp).