this post was submitted on 03 Oct 2024
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We gotta stop calling software updates recalls. Yeah I get that it’s fun to bash on the Cybertruck but this isn’t really that interesting.
Now that sticky accelerator pedal… yikes.
Recall is a legal term for the car industry which includes stuff like reporting obligations. So if the defect meets the severity level of a recall it should be called as such, even if it is 'just' a software update. Ambiguous terms for safety violations are dangerous and may cost lives.
Recall is also the plural term for a group of Cybertrucks.
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Rear view cameras have been federally required on passenger vehicles since module year 2018 in the US market. So yeah, regardless of the error, it's a recall because the result makes the vehicle noncompliant.
I still think its stupid that the requirements for that didnt require that they have a seperate screen from the dash, im convinced car manufacturers used it as an excuse to put fucken tablets in the dash. Congrats by trying to solve one problem ya made 50 others, especially since it makes it harder to remove the fucken tablet.
I refuse to use the term infotainment except to say that I hate it and want to pour pitch on whoever came up with it.
I can't imagine the threshold here isn't different though. If each of these recalls required hardware modifications Tesla would either hide the data or lawyers would be able to argue they weren't major safety violations. I think it's a plus that many things can be fixed expediantly with software updates and the threshold to do so is low.
NHTSA are the ones who investigate safety issues and issue recall notices. Once they have done that then the manufacturer has very specific legal requirements to follow. Hiding data from them would eventually come to light, and that would be very bad. Look at the diesel emissions scandal for one example. Volkswagen payed billions in fines for that, and a dozen or so employees including the CEO have been indicted. A few have pled guilty and been sentenced to jail.
(Apologies for not otherwise contributing to the discussion, you want "paid" instead of the nautical rope-handling term "payed".)
That is only one method for recalls. Many (maybe most) of the Tesla recalls have been voluntary and not mandated by the NHTSA
Yeah..... But these are multi-ton vehicles and when they crash people die. Unlike when your computer crashes.
I don’t think “the backup camera is a little slow to turn on” is the smoking gun you are looking for though.
The Cybertruck has no rear view mirror when the back cover is down.
So any reversing requires the use of the backup camera.
The car also accelerates really fast, and weighs 7,000 pounds.
It’s also an $80,000+ car that was preordered by a lot of people without test driving it. So it’s primary driver is someone who makes risky and impulsive decisions.
So a really fast, heavy car that can’t see behind it without a reverse camera, driven by impulsive people makes me think the reverse camera should definitely come up really fast.
There's still side mirrors, no? If you've ever seen a semi, those are 60 feet long, weigh 80,000lbs and back up without a rear view mirror or backup camera. Acting like this is an issue that's going to kill people is a bit absurd.
Semi drivers require a commercial license, and special training. They’re monitored way more closely than your average American driver.
And side mirrors only let you see what’s behind the car to the sides and at a distance, not what’s immediately behind the car. I don’t want some idiot in his $80K battering ram to roll over me because I happened to walk behind his death trap and he couldn’t be bothered to wait for the rear view camera to come up.
Not being able to see what’s immediately behind the vehicle is a safety hazard, especially in suburban areas or parking lots where most people are reversing out of a space with other people walking around.
Someone dumb enough could easily flatten someone backing up with that bug.
I'm sure it happens even with perfectly functional cameras.
Sure, it still happens regardless, it just makes it easier and more likely to happen.
I mean... the normal speed for seeing behind your car is the speed of light, so that may come a bit short of expectations.
In any case, I agree that by itself it's not a big deal. After the broken windshield wiper, the pieces that fall off and the sticky accelerator one may... you know, infer a pattern. Which, really, is the news here.
You consider 6-8 seconds a “little” slow?!
I’ve had software recalls for Toyotas and Hondas, both of which involved physical recall paperwork and required me to visit a dealer to install the new software.
Just because a software recall can be remedied over the air it doesn’t make it any less of a recall. As others have said, there’s a legal definition to a recall. They are issued by the NHTSA and require specific legal responses from the manufacturer.
On the one hand I agree, but also just because it can be fixed over the air doesn't mean it's not a major problem.
Plus imagine if a car manufacturer put VERY shitty software into their cars. If a manufacturer has 100 recalls a year, I want to know why. If they have 1, I want to know why.
Just because they are more easily fixed, doesn't mean the recall isn't important.
There are also plenty of dumb, nearly inconsequential recalls on regular cars too. Including things like "place this warning sticker in your manual". That's a recall.
A manufacturer once had to issue a recall to people who had gotten a recall performed at our dealership because one of the techs was throwing the recall parts away and calling it good. The original recall was for a connector under the seat for the seat belt pretensioner (part of the airbag system.)
A recall for a recall.
If the vehicle was sold broken and has to be fixed, it’s a recall.
If it’s just software, why can’t it be downloaded?
It can be? You literally just download the OTA update and the vehicle installs it from your own home. “Recall” implies that you have to go into the shop but that’s simply not true.
Some can be, some the manufacturer doesn't want to risk it so they make you take it into a dealership to update from a USB.
A Tesla always updates over the air (I suppose unless that's the part that's broken). It's arguably the most important safety feature on a car mostly defined by its software. I have a ten year old chevy that needs a software update, but like you said I'll need to make an appointment to have someone else download it and manually install that software for me, which sounds super archaic and dumb when it's spelled out like that.
Maybe they don't have an immutable backup firmware and are worried about bricking some part of the car if the update fails, or it's a hold over from their old car recall process.
Well, it's because it's an old car company doing software, something they're universally bad at. Legacy car companies being bad at software is why Apple Carplay and Android Auto exist.
I recall when I bought my first hybrid that the dealer said there were something like 15 different computers controlling things, from the ICE engine to the transmission to the charging of the battery, etc. They weren’t networked together.
I also once ran afoul of a software bug in the ECU of a Honda CR/V. That’s the embedded system that manages the whole operation of the engine - from fuel injection to timing to emissions etc. As they progress through model years they use different ECUs that require different software. Even though I work in IT, I wouldn’t feel comfortable trying to update it myself, given the different models, firmware revisions, etc. I was more than happy to take that car to a dealer to have them confirm my car had buggy software and to upgrade it to the right new version.
This is the same problem all the legacy OEM's are having. The car isn't a cohesive system, so it's very hard to update the car the way Tesla does.
They are getting better at it, and are able to do more things OTA, but I'm not sure anyone is actually at the level Tesla is yet. If I had to guess, I'd think RIvian might be, but I don't actually know. VW is going to Rivian for software help.